#FlashbackFriday – Man United Away

Part two of a look back at the history Arsenal’s trips to Old Trafford



#FlashbackFriday – Man United Away


Previous Flashbacks for Man United at Home can be found here and here, while yesterday’s edition on Man United away can be found here.

On November 6th 1986, United Chairman Martin Edwards would appoint Alex Ferguson as boss at Old Trafford and one month into Fergie’s reign, with United two points off the bottom of the table Tottenham would visit Old Trafford in front of a live Match of the Day audience. United raced into a two goal lead with Whiteside and Davenport on the scoresheet. However a superb header from Gary Mabbutt, a comedic own goal from Kevin Moran and a goal from Clive Allen in his annus miribulus season put Spurs 3-2 up, before a late penalty from Davenport evened the scores up with the match ending in a 3-3 draw. The first big victory of the Ferguson era however came on Boxing Day of 1986, with a 1-0 win over Liverpool at Anfield secured by a goal from Norman Whiteside.

At the time of Arsenal’s first visit to Old Trafford during the Ferguson era, the Gunners were top of the League table and unbeaten for seventeen games, while United still were languishing in the bottom half of the table in thirteenth position. This match if anything would be ground zero in the long running feud between the two sides that would stretch well into the next century. Ten minutes into the second half, Gordon Strachan would give United the lead. Not long after David Rocastle would pick up the only red card of his career. As Alex Ferguson would admit some years later: ‘it was one of those games when big Norman did about 45 fouls and never got booked. How he got away with it I’ll never know!’ A nineteen year old Rocky however would kick out at Whiteside in retaliation and as a result receive his marching orders. A late second from Terry Gibson sealed Arsenal’s fate with a 0-2 defeat.

This fixture would also be Alex’s first clash with an Arsenal manager, as he and George Graham would unsurprisingly argue in the tunnel. Fergie described in his autobiography that: ‘I can’t remember what the argument was about…but there we were in the tunnel, typical Scots, at each other’s throats – and we hadn’t even had a drink’. What is incredible however is that not a shred of video evidence of this game seems to be in existence. Such is the recent nature of Football’s saturation coverage on television, that such a turning point in the modern history of both clubs was never captured at all, in any form for posterity. United finished the 1986/87 season in eleventh position, while Arsenal would finish fourteen points above them in fourth place.

United’s first home game of the 1987/88 season would be Arsenal’s visit to Old Trafford. This would be the Gunners’ last visit to Old Trafford not to be caught by the cameras. Thankfully the match ended in a 0-0 draw so there wasn’t much to capture. United had a much improved 1987/88, finishing runners up to Liverpool, however at nine points behind were never really in the title race but pulled off a 3-3 draw at Anfield in April, coming back from two goals down with ten men. In 1988/89 United brought Mark Hughes back to Old Trafford, however seem to go backwards after failing to win eleven out of twelve games (which included six straight draws) over a three month period between September and Christmas which left them hovering in mid table.

The undoubted highlight of the 1988/89 season would be a 3-1 win over Liverpool on New Years’ Day, which would come during a run of six wins out of seven which pushed United up to third, built on the rise of Fergie’s original fledglings such as Lee Martin, Lee Sharpe, Mark Robins and Russel Beardsmore. The feelgood factor however would wear off by the end of February after a run of three victories in their last fourteen games to sink to a final finishing position of eleventh, behind Millwall! During that run however came Arsenal’s visit to Old Trafford at the start of April (in front of just 37,977 fans!), after Liverpool would begin to emerge as the main title challengers after beating second place Norwich twenty four hours earlier.

Arsenal unveiled a new sweeper system with Bould, Adams and O’Leary all incorporated at the back – a system which Arsenal would stick with until the season’s end. Tony Adams would give Arsenal the lead with a header from a corner, looking like Arsenal would go five points clear at the top. However a second half howler from Adams putting the ball into his own net meant that lead would be reduced to just three after a 1-1 draw at Old Trafford. For some reason, the Daily Mirror saw fit to put Adams on its back page with a pair of Donkey ears under the headline of ‘EE-HAW’, which aided a huge amount of barracking from away support across the country. TA though would have the last laugh that year in becoming one of the youngest ever players to captain a title winning side.

A spending spree in the summer and early autumn of 1989 however would be the death kneel for Fergie’s original fledglings, as Fergie paid £750,000 for Mike Phelan - the captain of surprise title challengers from the season prior, Norwich City, as well as £1.5 million for Neil Webb - a mainstay of Cloughie’s midfield at Nottingham Forest. In mid-August a takeover bid was launched by Millionaire property tycoon Michael Knighton, to buy the club from the Edwards family who had run United since the 1960s. Twenty four hours on prior to the visit of League Champions Arsenal to Old Trafford, in an act of shameless publicity by Knighton, he donned a United shirt juggling a ball in front of the Stretford End.

The match which followed saw United take the lead with a Steve Bruce header, however a penalty save by John Lukic from a Brian McClair penalty, as well as David Rocastle equalising with a header. Adams however left the game with an illness, to be substituted for Gus Caesar. In the second half however goals from Mark Hughes, an excellent volley from Neil Webb on his debut and a goal from Brian McClair inflicted a 1-4 defeat on the Gunners, with the front cover of that week’s edition of The Gooner fanzine remarking that the Gunners had sunk from top to bottom of the league within the space of two hours.

United allowed Ferguson to spend more funds, breaking the British transfer record after paying Middlesbrough £2.3 million for Gary Pallister, £1 million for West Ham’s Paul Ince and £1.3 million for Southampton’s Danny Wallace, taking United’s spending close to a then eye-watering figure of £7 million. The opening day hammering of Arsenal however would be United’s only victory in the first five games of the season. Their next victory would be a 5-1 win over Millwall, however the following week would be on the receiving end of the same score line, as City battered United 1-5 at Maine Road, to which Fergie would claim that: ‘I was as close to putting my head in the oven as I’d ever been and I think there would have been plenty of volunteers to turn on the gas had I done so’.

To compound matters, in October the deal with Michael Knighton collapsed after his financial backers pulled out, meaning that Knighton was unable to raise the £20 million required. On the pitch, after a run of eleven games without a win by February United were languishing in seventeenth position and just one point above the relegation zone. United however finished the season five points above the drop zone, though their season was saved by their successful FA Cup run that season, though had a close run Semi Final with local rivals Oldham Athletic at Maine Road who they eventually disposed of after a replay.

In 1990/91, United’s league form improved. An unbeaten Arsenal visited Old Trafford in October and took a first half lead with Anders Limpar scoring from a short corner (and looking at it closely was as far over the goal line as England’s third goal in the 1966 World Cup Final). The real drama however took place in the second half when a long running feud between Nigel Winterburn and Brian McClair boiled over after a sandwich tackle between him and Limpar lead to McClair kicking Winterburn while he was grounded and a twenty one man brawl ensued. Arsenal won the game 1-0, however following their part in another brawl a year earlier were deducted two points as a result (United deducted one point).

The points deduction left Arsenal eight points adrift of Liverpool at the top, however a stirring team talk from George Graham following the tribunal decision (as seen here) rallied the troops. Arsenal of course went on to win the league by seven clear points despite the points deduction. Man United finished in sixth position, three points behind their neighbours City however reached two Cup Finals that season, winning the European Cup Winners Cup in the first season after the Post-Heysel ban, however losing the 1991 League Cup Final to second tier Sheffield Wednesday who were managed by Fergie’s predecessor Ron Atkinson.

The 1991/92 season was Alex Ferguson’s first sustained League title challenge. Arsenal visited Old Trafford almost a year to the day from the ‘Battle of Old Trafford’ brawl. This time United were unbeaten and top of the League, six points clear of Arsenal. Steve Bruce gave United the lead, however David Rocastle equalised with a superb run and chip of Peter Schmeichel from over twenty yards out, resulting in a 1-1 draw. United were up against their old foes Leeds United, who were revitalised on returning to the top tier two seasons earlier and captained by Old Trafford old boy Gordon Strachan. One player who appeared on English football’s horizon this season was Eric Cantona who was lined up to join Trevor Francis’s Sheffield Wednesday but ended up at Leeds United instead to boost their title chances.

United won their first ever League Cup in 1-0 win over Nottingham Forest in 1991/92, but the League title still alluded them after blowing the title run in with three defeats in a row against Nottingham Forest, West Ham and a 0-2 defeat to Liverpool at Anfield which handed the title to Leeds United. Early on in the inaugural Premiership season it looked like United’s run without a title would continue, as Man. United failed to win their first three games of the Premiership era. The first ever goal of the Premiership era would be scored against Man United by Brian Deane as Sheffield United inflicted a 1-2 defeat on Man United. By late November United were languishing in tenth position after seven games without a victory, however the turning point of the season came with the signing of Eric Cantona from Leeds United.

Many will have forgotten all these years later that most United fans were actually disappointed at Ferguson signing Cantona rather than Sheffield Wednesday’s David Hirst, who Fergie had pursued but failed to land. One of Cantona’s earliest noteworthy contributions to the United cause was a late equaliser in a 3-3 away draw against Sheffield Wednesday on Boxing Day, where the Reds came back from three goals down. By the time of Arsenal’s visit to Old Trafford in late March, United would be two points off of Aston Villa at the top of the table and involved in a three horse race with Norwich also in contention. Arsenal had a few good chances, with Merson hitting the bar from twenty yards out with the game ending in a 0-0 draw. United had dropped to third after Norwich beat League leaders Villa on the same night, but United had a game in hand.

Arsenal’s visit however would be the last points dropped by United that season, after the Reds would go on a run of seven straight wins until the end of the season. A 3-0 win over Chelsea at Old Trafford put United on the verge of the title, which was sealed a few days later after Aston Villa lost away at Oldham. Arsenal also won both domestic Cups that season, with hopes high that the Gunners may be able to challenge United in the League in the 1993/94 season. When the two sides met at Old Trafford in late September, they were both level on points at the top of the Premiership. A superb Eric Cantona free-kick however inflicted a 0-1 defeat on the Gunners, which had been Arsenal’s first defeat at Old Trafford for four years. United won the title by again the following May losing just four games all season with Arsenal twenty one points behind in fourth place. United also added the FA Cup for their first ever Double.

In 1994/95, the gap would stretch to a thirty seven point difference between the two sides, with Arsenal languishing in twelfth position. By the time of Arsenal’s next visit to Old Trafford in March 1995, George Graham had been sacked by Arsenal with his assistant Stewart Houston filling in until the end of the season. Eric Cantona would also be serving a nine month suspension after attacking a fan during a 1-1 draw away at Crystal Palace in January. United inflicted a 0-3 defeat on the Gunners with goals from Mark Hughes, Lee Sharpe and Andrei Kanchelskis in his last appearance for Man United before being sold to Everton over the summer. United however failed to retain their title, losing out to Blackburn Rovers by one point after a 1-1 draw at West Ham on the last day.

In late March 1996, Arsenal would again succumb to an Eric Cantona wonder goal, after the Frenchman returned from suspension to inspire a team made up of Fergie’s new fledglings. United inflicted a 0-1 defeat to go ahead of Newcastle at the top of the table, on their way to second League and FA Cup Double winning season. This would be Arsenal’s only visit to Old Trafford during the Stewart Houston era. The following season, Arsene Wenger had been newly installed at Highbury and would visit Old Trafford for the first time in Mid-November two points off of the top of the table having lost only one League game. United on the other hand had just suffered three League defeats on the trot, conceding a total of thirteen goals in all three. A defensive mix up led to a Nigel Winterburn own goal, as United inflicted a 0-1 defeat and Arsenal’s fourth straight loss at Old Trafford.

The incident would also be noteworthy for the beginning of a spat that would rage through both fixtures that year, as Ian Wright alleged that Peter Schmeichel racially abused Ian Wright after the latter committed a foul on him – a claim supposedly backed up by a lip reader. Schmeichel was never charged and such was the bad blood between them that the pair would refuse a PR handshake in front of the cameras, however would happily sit next to one another as fellow pundits on Match of the Day some years after this event in a more cordial fashion than Alan Shearer manages with Ruud Gullit. Eric Cantona retired after United won the title again in 1996/97, however Arsene Wenger would win his first Old Trafford encounter in 1997/98.


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176
comments

  1. mbg

    Feb 29, 2016, 12:41 #84765

    brombley boy, to answer your question mate, absolutely not. This old past it manager is the main problem here it's plain to be seen even for the blind, it wouldn't matter WHO he bought it wouldn't make any difference it's the way they'd be trained or coached (lack off) wengers way, he'd have them playing out of position all over the place, doing things completely alien to them and getting injured in the process, instead of the things that made them great players in the first place (wenger knows best you see)eventually he'd ruin them, just look round the team now, and bring them down to his and others level second raters and we'd be back to square one. No the only way now is for a new man it's plain to be seen. wenger out.

  2. mbg

    Feb 29, 2016, 12:26 #84759

    Danny, well said, of course it's all wenger to blame and you've highlighted just one of the reasons (probably the main one)and his followers know that too, but such is their devotion to their messiah they always need or have a scapegoat, but it's good to see even a lot of them are waking up now. wenger out.

  3. A Cornish Gooner

    Feb 29, 2016, 11:28 #84745

    Westie. Results after our seven CL games W3 D2 L2. A 5-1 scoreline might look like a stroll, but the game wasn't safe for Man U. until they got their fourth goal in the 87th minute. The 'lower opposition' also put up more of a fight than we did.

  4. Augustus Flair

    Feb 29, 2016, 9:24 #84702

    Well said, Westlower. How dare those minnows at Leicester presume to sit top of the PL where we should be! And if everything was different then everything would be different. That's telling 'em!

  5. Westlower

    Feb 29, 2016, 8:55 #84695

    The common denominator as always is the game after a ECL game guarantees a flat performance. Yes, MU played 2 days after us but they were buoyed by a 5-1 stroll against lower opposition. I've been banging on for weeks that the two vulnerable games in our remaining fixtures were the ones immediately after the Barcelona games. Losing in the knock out stage of the ECL always knocks the stuffing out of us. This year is no different & the trip to Goodison will be much the same. Should Leicester be playing these games instead of basking in the sun the league table may have a different look to it. Skybet got hammered with a £4.4m payout after enhancing the odds on a Stoke, Leicester & Chelsea treble out to 8/1 from 5/1. Even the 'experts' get it wrong sometimes. Revised odds to win PL, TH & Leic 2/1, AFC 11/4, Citeh 6/1, MU 125/1.

  6. CB

    Feb 29, 2016, 8:37 #84694

    Arseblog has finally come off the fence and says it is time for a new man in charge. Last one out of AKB central switch off the lights please.

  7. Louis Van beat Louis XIV

    Feb 29, 2016, 8:32 #84693

    lily-livered, soft centre, weak willed, Zero fight, Zero Passion, under-motivated, lack of togetherness, lack of heart, Zero game intelligence. Shall I go on ? These are all of the things your Manager is there to take care of. Have you noticed how west ham spurs leicester have all of the above in spades.

  8. bromley boy

    Feb 29, 2016, 8:23 #84692

    i would imagine a number of players will be either released or sold in the summer, Arteta Flamini rosisky all come to mind on current form you would have to question the likes of walcott ox Gabriel and ramsey .The problem then is do you have enough faith in Wenger to rip up this team and build a new one, and also will kronke want to release enough funds to improve the squad even if we were to generate say £60 million from the sale of those players plucking 2 players as an example John Stones and Ross Barkley would cost us in the region of £70 million. the other option would be to find a manager that can actually coach the likes of theo properly and turn them into better players.big choices to be made this summer !!!

  9. Mick Jones

    Feb 29, 2016, 8:06 #84691

    Good to see that Amy Lawrence has effectively broken with Wenger. The Guardian comments were full of comment about how she has had enough. Lots of radio static that things aren't well in the camp as well. Perhaps the Wenger boys fancy doing a Chelsea. If Wenger loses at the Lane the reasons to sack ever increase and the cover is blown at board level. As you can not care a **** about winning things, but you can't be seen to not care a ****. That just leaves the 3 freaks (Colesey, Jackerson, Badarse) and Westie (not a freak but deluded) . Lastly if they put up a statue to the old losing bastard when he finally goes. Who's up for Toppling it over as per Sadam and Stalin.

  10. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Feb 29, 2016, 8:05 #84690

    We've had worse teams, and worse times. But I can't remember watching such an anodyne, emasculated bunch of players representing our great football club as I saw on that pitch yesterday. No heart, no fight. These are dark times indeed.

  11. Tommy

    Feb 29, 2016, 6:40 #84689

    Yesterdays performance was up there with the 8-2 when you look at United's line up.Glutless is the only way to describe it.The whole team bar Cech were abysmal.Ask yourself how a player of such limited ability as Walcott has been 10 years at Arsenal.Wenger has to go this summer he just has to.

  12. Mick Jones

    Feb 29, 2016, 6:05 #84688

    Colesey - this is you and Jamerson's problem as massive cracks appear in your divinity as your desperation to claw onto your messiah you suggest I suport Spurs? Sorry old man ( for that is what you are ) I'm Arsenal but not Arsene. Just a little amused that I used terms about Wengers team that were frequently used about Spurs but you know don't you, that no one is saying about them now . All you can say is they have won nothing yet. Same for us, looks like the body language in our camp isn't good. How would you explain a Spurs title win? You know it's the final nail for the Le Loser.

  13. Danny

    Feb 29, 2016, 4:26 #84687

    Guys, don't blame the board, its wenger. he does not want to spend and improve the club. we are stall and he needs to go. The board are guilty in only not putting pressure on wenger and contents with 4th. Wenger has to go. We the Fans need to put the pressure on

  14. au revoir wenger

    Feb 29, 2016, 1:47 #84686

    The time has now come for mass protest to get rid of wenger

  15. mbg

    Feb 29, 2016, 1:03 #84685

    Any word of an resignation yet ? I wondered has TOF been spotted on the train returning to his office, lets hope so, go now old man.

  16. Danny

    Feb 29, 2016, 1:00 #84684

    For Christ sake, when are people going to blame Wenger. He is the problem here No fight no balls. He has to be fired!

  17. Cyril

    Feb 28, 2016, 23:50 #84683

    GUTTED

  18. Jamerson

    Feb 28, 2016, 23:40 #84682

    Arsenal have the best record against other top five clubs in the Premiership,so what excuse are the shirt lifting WOR going to come out with now to put the team down.They can hardly call us flat track bullies as the crappy crapster teams are the ones we haven't been beating like we usually do.Get a life you WOR we should have beaten small time Europey manure yet I still predict the doubles ours..Crappy old bottle mongers spuds will fold like a pack of cards when the heat is truly on.

  19. goonercolesyboy

    Feb 28, 2016, 23:27 #84681

    Nice one Mick, your team from the sh*t hole Lane have won nothing yet.

  20. Mick Jones

    Feb 28, 2016, 22:46 #84680

    Coleseyboy - thought you'd like a nice reply summing up you AKB's. You supine , cheese eating surrender monkeys, you weak kneed losers, you effete Balley dancing namby pamby mincers , you lovers of mediocrity, bean counters to a man who quiver at the thought of change. I've told you this before as despite your supposed knowledge of football you failed to recognise that Spurs are likely to win the league and with this your pathetic failure of a manager will be shown up for the true failure he is! Hope you choke on it sunshine.

  21. goonercolesyboy

    Feb 28, 2016, 22:30 #84679

    "Beaten by a team of kids led by the old man Carrick". Keep the hysteria in check. Three 'kids', Rafela, Lindgard and Rashford. Plenty of points to play for. Must wins starting on Wednesday against Swansea and at the sh*t hole on Saturday. Yagunnersya.

  22. mbg

    Feb 28, 2016, 22:19 #84678

    Well done Grahame Souness calling this team a joke, your dead right. Sad.

  23. Nick T

    Feb 28, 2016, 21:56 #84677

    The picture at the top of this article highlights everything thats wrong with the current squad...remember that disgraceful challenge/shove on Sanchez at Norwich back in December yet NOT ONE of his teamates rallied round and got in the blokes face - can you imagine Keown/Adams/Wright/Vieira/Nutty/Dixon and god knows how many others standing for that back in the day!!! Ah well look out for Feo (of all people after today!!) come out with one of his famous soundbytes in the next few days GUTLESS TWAT

  24. mbg

    Feb 28, 2016, 21:53 #84676

    jw, there you are then, fatigue is another excuse that has been blown out of the AKB's arses, but we knew that anyway.

  25. mbg

    Feb 28, 2016, 21:37 #84674

    Ron, great post ( the man from Atlantis might not like that but who cares) you should have saved it for an article, wengers done he really is and anybody who can't see that has a serious problem because it's plain to be seen it really is, why won't they admit it ? wenger out.

  26. Hiccup

    Feb 28, 2016, 21:18 #84673

    I think we could all do with some updated odds for some perspective and cheer the mood up. Or hows about coldsore boy telling us that Leicester have a hard run of games coming up and it's piss easy for us, so lets see where we are after then.

  27. smithy

    Feb 28, 2016, 21:06 #84672

    If I hear Arsene talking about mental strength and spirit again I think I will explode. This team has no guts or balls. Give me the GG back five - Seaman, Adams Keown, Dixon and Winterburn- they would run through brick walls for the club, this lot wouldn't run a bath!

  28. Ron

    Feb 28, 2016, 20:57 #84671

    Tony - one of the guys joked that another 6-1 was on the cards today as per 2001 on the basis of the weather being similar to that awful day. At 2-0 we thought he knew something we didnt!! Most noticeable thing now i found was the air of resignation among the away support. It used to be so good. Its sad that many are actually at the point of not caring too much anymore, though i cant honestly see why they keep parting with their hard earned to be like that. Saw a few old faces today not seen for 4-5 yrs. It was good. Its just habit for many and i know it takes some breaking. Until they do, nothing will change there i fear.

  29. mbg

    Feb 28, 2016, 20:55 #84670

    Someone has already stated they hate saying I told you so, I don't, I said yesterday a lot of talk about man u being there for the taking with their worst team in history, and Quite true, but warned this is wenger and his powder puff team we're talking about, i told you so. He never disappoints. wenger out.

  30. Billthered

    Feb 28, 2016, 20:46 #84669

    Don't worry after a setback like this we will come back and show our mental strength and resilience ain't that the normal response.Walnut should get nicked for a hundred grand a week.I think we should bring back Keown I'm not sure how old he is but I'm sure he could do a better job than the three incumbents who share the role at the moment.I think the players should have a whip round for all the traveling gooners and pay them double what they paid to watch that shower of sh**e. It wouldn't be so bad if the spuds weren't above us perhaps we could steal their manager.

  31. Roy

    Feb 28, 2016, 20:44 #84668

    That's it. Time to go. Totally unacceptable. Anyone that can't see what this regime with its nice cosy little arrangement is doing to our club, must need their head tested. God help us.

  32. bromley boy

    Feb 28, 2016, 20:30 #84667

    mbg, agree that kronke does not do any of those things you mention he also does not put any pressure on Wenger other than to finish in the top 4 he knows nothing about our game and what a club means to its fans i saw him last week against hull and he looked totally uninterested we posted a £3 million pound loss last week the same amount he took out of the club for what ? Arsenal are moving backwards under his leadership with other clubs catching us up and possibly over taking us . he is not the owner we need lets get someone in who wont except 2nd best

  33. Tony Evans

    Feb 28, 2016, 20:23 #84666

    Hi Ron - I'm sure you were half expecting a performance like that and the boys didn't let you down! What a bloody shower eh?

  34. jeff wright

    Feb 28, 2016, 20:18 #84665

    Westie ,United played two games last week an FAC tie Monday night away and a Europa Cup one at home on Thursday night .We played one game at home and had two days extra to recover - your post ,as usual about fatigue for an excuse , makes no sense. All of a sudden 4th place doesn't look like the certainty that it did do ,this defeat really has let the Foxes in among the chickens..cluck..cluck cluck...with plenty of those chickens coming home to roost again . Leaving aside the chickens and foxes it's the Swans up next and then the crowing cockerels ...will bird-brained Arsene be able to cope ... he was squatting on his haunches again at the end of today's embarrassment and was bricking it when he shuffled out along with our players - with Kowardly Keystone Kos yet again showing why he is not and never will be a top defender - he doesen't have the bottle to be one and cracks up when the going gets tough -even against a side full of kids led by a past it Carrick . You couldn't make it up.

  35. exiled&dangerous

    Feb 28, 2016, 19:57 #84664

    At what point, during that 'performance' did you think we were watching a team that believed they could win the title? No? Me neither. Here is what I sent to my mate at the end of the game: I support a team of bollockless ****gobbling spunktrumpets on around a hundred grand a week. With the benefit of hindsight, I was being a little too fair on the twats. Not fit to wear the shirt. See you next week - come on you Gooners (that is the definition of optimism, blind faith and general ****ety ****ness).

  36. KC

    Feb 28, 2016, 19:44 #84663

    Wenger, Ramsey,the Ox,Walcot, Pers, Flamini, simply not good enough. The others need a manager with discipline that will drop players when they don't perform? It's easy street at Arsenal under this board this manager. We require a harsher demanding board that wants success to be winning trophies not top four. It's so depressing as I really believe the attitude is so shocking they play with out devil or anger just like their manager.

  37. This Arsenal never miss an opportunity ..

    Feb 28, 2016, 19:43 #84662

    ... to miss an opportunity

  38. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 28, 2016, 19:34 #84661

    Hiccup beat me to it, but I was also going to suggest Man U playing 48 hours later this week gave them an advantage. However, I feel it was due to it being easier to run the fatigue out of their legs. Having sat in there an extra two days, the fatigue had become more established in the Arsenal player's legs thus harder to run off. Given this huge disadvantage, there was no way our boys could be expected to overcome Man U's assortment of youth team players, ball boys and blokes pulled from the crowd.

  39. mbg

    Feb 28, 2016, 19:32 #84660

    bromley boy, i hear where your coming from, but kronke doesn't pick the players to sign, pick them for the games, coach them, train them, deliver the tactics, (forget that last one)tell them where to play, what to do, give team talks, (forget that one also) give instructions, refuse to spend money, tell us the players have great mental strength and speerett, make substitutions, etc, etc, etc, wenger does, not kronke, the buck stops with him, there is no excuses for TOF whatsoever. wenger out.

  40. John Gage

    Feb 28, 2016, 19:17 #84659

    @Westlower: Unfortunately, this is the business end of the season when matches will come in thick and fast and every point counts. If Arsenal are too "jaded" to fight, if they can't find the hunger and desire to overcome their "fatigue', then they simply have no business trying to win a Premiership title.

  41. mbg

    Feb 28, 2016, 19:09 #84658

    TJ, Cornish, two good posts, well said, them and their ilk are the real Enemy of this club.

  42. Hiccup

    Feb 28, 2016, 19:09 #84657

    Statistics just don't do us justice. The record books will show our defence shipping in 3 goals against an injury ravaged front line. There'll be no mention that our full strength defence is the fastest in Europe. I've now joined the AKB thought process that having fast defenders is more important than having defenders that can defend. its not all bad news today.

  43. Ron

    Feb 28, 2016, 19:05 #84656

    Well guys, my two companions and i turned up. The beauty of the afternoon was the sunshine and the tranquility of knowing that Arsenal football Club wouldnt. They never let us down up at OT do they! Credit Utd. So fired up. Good game plan. Their youngsters ran Arse in to the ground as many in the Mexican Bar (Utd Fans) in Salford Quays told us they would. Came away thinking Depay is one hell of a player. More power in his young frame than half the Arses sad arses put together. The kid up front was always going to score. Shades of Rooney back in 03. Arse looked scared witless of the kid and he was soon on to it. Something about Utd kids that other Clubs kids never have, in that they seem to just grow into that red devil shirt from their very first games and have the same panache and temperament that the older players have. Its must be because its Man Utd they're picked to represent. Uncanny. Anyway, the positives are that we re seeing the end game of this chronic rotten Wenger regime. There are players there playing their last games and some who look like they already have, Wally being the leader of that crew. Cech looked old today. It was kind of Ozil to turn up to take the free kicks i thought. Monreal s a real battler and deserves a better Coach. Bellerin must surely be made for better things. Sanchez looks disinterested and its easy to see why he didnt hack it at the very top. Hes sure learned how to sulk though under Wenger, the master. sulker. Ramsey has a good future ahead of him at Swansea Sunderland or Norwich type clubs. Koschielny at least never walked off with a dubious injury as the kid ran him to ground, though nobody would have minded if he had. Gabriel is just up there with the top 3 worst defenders Wenger has ever bought tho we knew that. Cocqelin is a game tryer though not cut out for big games at all skill or temperament wise. Hes squad material and would shine at West Brom i think. Some body told me Giroud had come on. I hadnt noticed. Wellbeck tried hard to convince Utds fans they miss him, though im sure they dont. How could they with the players theyve got coming through. Anyway, the parking was once more top quality just half a mile up the road from OT in the same old school yard ive used for years. The Bar was good and the food great as ever. Thanks girls (the ones in the bar, not the ones in those vile gold shirts) Even the M6 was kind today too, now that stretch from J13 is filly open. Last but not least, so glad to say that i rarely do matches these days to watch that sh-te. If ever a team of fake and feeble minded posing con men doesnt deserve to be crowned Champs of English football its our N7 rabble. Cmon Leics, do it for football and the remaining footie fans who still see some thing some where in modern football to hang onto. Wenger, you looked shot and so does that nodding dog Bould alongside you. Do the honourable thing. You know what it is.

  44. KC

    Feb 28, 2016, 19:04 #84655

    We are so easy to play against. How does he watch it and not act.how many goals do we have to concede before he accepts the side of football without the ball. It's simply time for him to resign but his arrogance wont allow it andca board that count money not trophies.

  45. mbg

    Feb 28, 2016, 18:59 #84654

    The positives of this latest embarrassment is it's another blow and dent in/to this old frauds ego, and that was plain to be seen in the post match, and that's always a good thing, there can never be enough of those. wenger out.

  46. John F

    Feb 28, 2016, 18:53 #84653

    Sadly Bromley boy you are right .If Wenger did the decent thing and resigned Ihate to think who the board would appoint next.Henry,Rodgers,Jonkers would be the standard they would go for.We need a get rid of wiggie as well as the manager.The team looked totally disorganised today.According to the forum it got a bit heated in the away section today.It cannot be right that fans are so divided and really should be the reason alone for Wenger to go .We need to re unite under a new manager and owner.The players looked demotivated and bored by the same old Wenger tactic.

  47. John Gage

    Feb 28, 2016, 18:40 #84652

    My prediction at the start of the season was for Arsenal to finish 3rd and nothing I have seen would make me change my mind. I do not sense any real hunger or desire from the Arsenal players to become champions. There have been several times this season for Arsenal to go to the top and open up a gap and the opportunities went begging. This is not a sign of a team that wants to be champions. As the years pass the only conclusion I can come to is that Arsenal will never win another Premiership title under Arsene Wenger again.

  48. Gooner89

    Feb 28, 2016, 18:40 #84651

    Old Man. Very funny. I am certainly not Jamerson and upset you would even think that let alone write it. I am life long Gooner, 54 next month. The clue is in 89!!! Wenger out

  49. Augustus Flair

    Feb 28, 2016, 18:28 #84650

    Wenger has just said this: "Let's not go overboard. They had a very experienced midfield and spent a lot of money." Er, so, am I missing something vital here?

  50. Old Man

    Feb 28, 2016, 18:24 #84649

    I wonder if Gooner89 is actually Jamerson????

  51. KC

    Feb 28, 2016, 18:22 #84648

    Hard to believe any team in the league position we are in can perform like that. Mentality is so poor. Defensively we are pathetic and have been all season. Wenger refuses to spend in key areas and allows players to perform like this. We have performed well in a very small number of games this season In a very poor season standard wise we have dropped to a new low showing the same weaknesses year after year. The manager should resign now but certainly at the end of the season. Won't hold my breath.

  52. Gooner89

    Feb 28, 2016, 18:19 #84647

    Jamerson. Do us all a favour and clear off back to AKB Central Command, or what's left of it. How you can defend TOF after yet another failure is beyond comprehension. You must be a Spud on a wind up mission. You haven't been on here much recently, which with the misery of the club falling down around us is the only good thing. Crawl back under you rock. WENGER OUT

  53. Hiccup

    Feb 28, 2016, 18:18 #84646

    Guys, go easy on westie, he's only following AKB guidelines. If defeated after a CL game, default to fatigue/jaded. This claptrap comes out without even thinking about what he's saying. I put the defeat down to us having to wait so long since Tuesday to play. Lack of sharpness, while United were more match fit having played as recently as Thursday. It's all rather easy putting these excuses together if you put some thought in to it. Make the excuse up, stick by it, and defend the spouted nonsense 'til the cows come home.

  54. bromley boy

    Feb 28, 2016, 18:03 #84645

    i know most of these posts are aimed at Wenger but lets no forget the part Kronke is playing in this sorry episode Until both are removed it will be more of the same next season. both need to be removed

  55. jjetplane

    Feb 28, 2016, 17:44 #84644

    How did that 4-2 win for you go against Barca. Bet your slave was happy .... Wrighty is now saying the Spuds can do it but I would love Leicester to but whatever happens half my prediction is right re a new top four. Next season will have to make way for Saints, Stoke, Hammers and picking Toffees to win it with City, Utd, Chelsea Totta and Leicester and maybe Watford. That will see Arsene in his last year at 10th with Ozil on gardening leave and Sanchez just plain refusing to play. Happy days .... The silver cloud is with so much experience gunning (sic) for fourth (t shirts - why not?) there is always a vitual trophy to placate the Arsenites .... (Gospel according to Theo ....)

  56. mbg

    Feb 28, 2016, 17:43 #84643

    Did you see the face of the old fraud in the post match ? stuttering and stammering, hilarious, it's always somebody else's fault, or something else to blame, go now your an embarrassment.

  57. Old Man

    Feb 28, 2016, 17:42 #84642

    Jamerson, My son you have done it again! PRICELESS! I think I love you!

  58. A Cornish Gooner

    Feb 28, 2016, 17:42 #84641

    Westie. Why weren't Man U. also 'jaded' after their game on THURSDAY? How much did you win on the result?

  59. TJ

    Feb 28, 2016, 17:39 #84640

    @Westlower, how predictable! The Barcelona match was the first full game most of today's players had had since Feb 14th! Meanwhile, United TRAVELED TO SCANDINAVIA, then to Shrewsbury, then played AGAIN this Thursday, giving us TWO EXTRA REST DAYS. Fanboys like you lap it up and keep propping up this regime- AKBs are the greatest enemies of this club.

  60. Jamerson

    Feb 28, 2016, 17:24 #84639

    A stronger ref and we'd have comfortably won.Whether you're an ardent AKB who follows Arsenal through good and bad or some woopsie sofa dwelling WOR who only leaves the house to commit deviant activities.It's time to get behind the team.

  61. Greg

    Feb 28, 2016, 17:21 #84638

    Martyn, you echo my thoughts exactly! What a pitiful display. But didn't surprise me after the last ten years!!

  62. Bard

    Feb 28, 2016, 17:19 #84637

    Bromley mate its all about perceptions. There is no doubt the mood amongst the fans is febrile and it will only get worse. Eventually the tide has to turn even for £8m a year. If he cannot win the league with most of the top sides out of sorts it must dawn on him that he isnt up to it anymore. Can you imagine what will happen if we get tonked at the Lane and the spuds go on to win it. Im not sure even Wenger can rise above that. Westie please no more about fatigue.

  63. Old Man

    Feb 28, 2016, 17:12 #84636

    Good man Jamerson! What a wind up merchant' RESPEC!!

  64. mbg

    Feb 28, 2016, 17:11 #84635

    It's up for grabs, well said, the AKB wengerites and his luvvies are as much part of the problem as they're messiah, they're as much to blame as him. wenger out.

  65. Moscow Gooner

    Feb 28, 2016, 17:09 #84634

    Westlower - I've got to say that's an extraordinary comment: the team looked 'jaded' because they played Barcelona AT HOME earlier in the week! They were up against Man Utd reserves FFS. A gutless performance. Nothing less than wins against Swansea and the Sour Sids will now do. Another 4th place finish and it must have to be the long sad overdue exit for votre ami...

  66. smithy

    Feb 28, 2016, 17:05 #84633

    what a shambles! Time to go! If we can't win it I hope to God Leicester can.

  67. Jamerson

    Feb 28, 2016, 17:00 #84632

    Rashford should have been sent of at the end of the first half,blatant penalty and red card.Makes a complete mockery of the result.Who cares what the sofa dwelling WOR think,it's all fixed anyway..

  68. mbg

    Feb 28, 2016, 17:00 #84631

    Hiccup, yes and we looked jaded, and remember Ramsey covered a lot of ground on Tuesday (how big is a football pitch again ? ) is that not what he gets paid for ?)only for that we'd have won. You really couldn't make it up, it's not right laughing.

  69. jjetplane

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:57 #84630

    Should have kept Sanogo - ask Westie! Will Giroud get his dream move to Charlton now? Talking of Westie - can we have a reshuffle on those numbers now Arsene FC are good for top six .... Anyway - what could go wrong in the FA Cup with a couple of walkovers and a big team finale with Chelski. Wonder how Arnold's contract is going. Doubt if Stan knows/understands today's score so same as and perhaps a ranch extension or two and who knows - maybe Arnold will rent the chateau out ... ps Man Utd appear to have an interesting crop of youngsters so beating a side of cultural complacency is not that great a shake. They aren't the first team to enjoy a lift courtesy of Arsene FC. pps Sanchez becoming a serial diver ....

  70. Nick

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:54 #84629

    Getting a bit tired of being called a glory hunter for daring to critize Wenger, wanting your team to win every game is not glory hunting its what EVERY supporter of a club SHOULD want, everytime we lose it hurts I don't like being hurt, perhaps those who defend what logic and common sense says is undefendable don't feel that hurt as keenly as I and others do , which in my opinion means they cannot care as deeply as we do. Abject surrenders and mo shows by the team are a direct insult to the fans, when we have the resources to drastically improve the team.and choose not to that in any other walk of life would be gross negligence, iys groundhog day yet again how many more DECADES are you Wenger boot lickers prepared to endure ? He was good once he no longer has what it takes though only his own hubris and the sycophantic adoration of the likes of Jameson keep him in his job , they fear change more than they fear failure !

  71. Augustus Flair

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:54 #84628

    Post Number 89508, 11am, Feb 28: "Despite a cocktail of stimulants and a series of positive thinking sessions at my local ashram, I cannot sense anything here other than a narrow defeat - 2-1 perhaps..." I hate people who say I told you so, but... Anyway, good to see Walnutt in transcendental form again and Taffy Ramsey giving the ball away for all he was worth. At the end there was a brief shot of Sir AF fist-pumping and singing along to Glory, Glory, Man Utd. I probably feel the same about him as you, but there's real passion there, real commitment. Anyone for AW belting out Good Old Arsenal at the Lane after he's retired? Or Stan the Man high-fiving at the Bridge after a victory there? No, didn't think so. No passion, no commitment, no spine.

  72. Tony Evans

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:50 #84627

    Pathetic! Come on Leicester! This is like death by a thousand cuts - should the unlikely happen and we win the next two games and Leicester slip up we will be right back in it but I almost hope we don't and then we can get back to normal fighting for 4th place and also be cheering Leicester on.

  73. mbg

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:48 #84626

    Martyn, your spot on there, you just had to look at our little dwarfs body language walking out, hunched, nervous, shyting themselves, they no more wanted to be there, Bottlers, wenger hasn't a clue, if ever it looks like a dressing room is lost it's there, it has to be, it's plain to be seen. Resign now you old fraud.

  74. It's up for grabs now

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:47 #84625

    Only a team managed by clueless could lose this fixture against an injury ravaged Man U team, which even when at full strength, is the worst one in thirty years. Also only a clueless manager could screw up the easiest title to win in decades, as all the other big clubs are already out of the frame. To make matters even worse, Spurs might actually end St Totteringham day this season by actually winning it, and will almost certainly finish above Arsenal if they win against us in a fortnights time, which currently is looking highly likely. The only silver lining on the horizon is that Leicester might prevent the unthinkable happening. Thanks once again all you AKB’s for keeping us saddled with such an out of date manager, and I use the term manager very loosely!

  75. Westlower

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:47 #84624

    Both PL away games after Barcelona ties were always going to be banana skins. Everton away, after we visit the Camp Nou. Team looked jaded, especially Ramsey who covered a lot of ground on Tuesday. Coq & Sanchez long way from best. When did Alexis last have a shot on target? Theo gets less involved by the game. We simply have to go on a long winning run from hereon in. The NLD could be our last throw of the dice.

  76. Jamerson

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:39 #84623

    What does it matter what the WOR think anyway,they're just a bunch of glory hunters.

  77. Hiccup

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:37 #84622

    I see Mike Dean was 4th official and deliberately upsetting wenger. That's where the blame lies. Dean spent the whole game in the ref's earpiece telling him to let United win. We haven't won for 5 years when Dean has been 4th official. The latest petition is already under way. Get on it guys and gals.

  78. Peter Wain

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:33 #84621

    what a dispolay. quite what walcott is doing in the club is beyond me clearly he is not a first team player.to be beaten so decisively by an under 21 team is embarassing.Still the owner will not act. We have anothe wast of a transfer window looming lots of links lots of promises of top top quality and nothing to show for it at the end.Wenger most be sacked now and tak Gazidis and the board with him

  79. Barnaby

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:30 #84620

    Wenger out lololol! Losing to a **** second string Utd!!

  80. bromley boy

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:29 #84619

    Bard wishful thinking mate resign from his £8 million a year contract where is only remit is to finish top 4. Think you and me both could manage that

  81. mbg

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:29 #84618

    Luton, what title challenge ? there never was one mate, but a lot of us knew that, with others it was all in their minds.

  82. Jamerson

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:28 #84617

    Rashford should have been sent of at the end of the first half,blatant penalty and red card.Makes a complete mockery of the result.

  83. Nick

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:28 #84616

    Add another clueless and gutless display at old Trafford to the list ! Our title hopes are now gone, I only wish Wenger would go with them, the tippy, tappy, insipid football that some call attractive drives me nuts !! No one.on the pitch apart from Welbeck and Cech played well, no one.on the bench capable of making a difference but never mind we have millions in the bank , everytime our players need to show resolve, character and a winning mentality they BOTTLE it ! We need a mass clear out of the underperformers', led by Walcott who yet again was anonymous, Ramsey works hard but constantly slows play down, Ozil, drifts in and out of games, and desperately needs a forward who makes the runs his passes can pick out , again a wasted substitution changing a dm for another dm when your chasing a game, the lack of quality options on the bench is down to Wengers parsimony and the paucity of quality coming up through the ranks, we now have another three games coming up that are must wins so I fully expect us to stumble , faff and fart about and win NONE, our team reflects our managers personality FLAKY !!

  84. Martyn

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:25 #84615

    That was one of the worse performances I have seen this season. We can't pass, we can't shoot and frankly the players should be ashamed. There is something rotten behind the scenes at Arsenal; just look at the body language of the players. It happened to Chelsea earlier on in the season and it sure is happening at Arsenal. Out of Champions league, out of league contention and who would relish a trip to Hull after the Spuds game? Give credit to Man Utd; they are ravaged by injuries, put trust in their youngsters and made our team look second best. They wanted it more than us and that is the biggest indictment. I was dreading this match and the Spurs match is equally one to dread. Fourth place then a clear out, including the management!

  85. Bard

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:18 #84614

    What an afternoon. We dont turn up yet again and the Spuds beat Swansea. The battle for 4th spot is on. Surely he will resign at the end of the season.

  86. jeff wright

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:18 #84613

    It will be ironic if the 6 points we took off Leicester help the spud win the league. All that celebrating after Diving Danny scored .Looks even sillier now. You couldn't make it up.

  87. mbg

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:10 #84612

    The worst man u team in the history of the prem league and we still can't beat them, who was it that said this shower aren't bottlers ? If this old excuse for a manager has any decency he'll resign immediately and take his fans with him, your as much to blame as him. Go now you old fraud, wenger out.

  88. jjetplane

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:10 #84611

    Bit of TSPort and they are talking of 'Wenger in his sleeping bag ... but what does he do?' This is just normal off the cuff stuff and at the end he could not even get to shake LVG's hand 'cause the latter was busy elsewhere. Theo, Ramsay, Sanchez, Ozil no shows against a bunch of kids and then the Totts win and City will ensure 4th place gets difficult. Hardly worth talking about but we do becaise once we were Arsenal and now it is Stan FC ....

  89. In The Luton End When Caesar Fell

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:09 #84610

    I'd like to say that the title challenge was fun while it lasted, but I'd be kidding myself. Gabriel's been with the club long enough to find the consistency of performance to establish as Koscielny's permanent partner, but that still hasn't happened. Not sure if it ever will. I know it's early days for Elneny, but I get the uncomfortable impression that he's a slight upgrade on the bit - part midfielder role that has until now been the preserve of Arteta / Flamini, i.e. no great improvement. The prospect of the Sillywhites making us look like mugs moves a little closer. This will not matter a jot at Arsenal PLC Head Office. The owner's not a fan, I'd say you'd be hard - pressed to find a significant proportion of staff at PLC HQ that are genuine fans of The Arsenal these days. To finish, three names - John Stones, Axel Witsel, Romelu Lukaku....or at the very least, someone with the character of Troy Deeney, who plays with a heart in his chest and a pair between his legs.

  90. BiggoonerDave

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:06 #84609

    As major embarrassment's go that's right up there. Man Utd are ****e and we still could,nt beat them.Arsene,just admit it,you have not got a clue and it's time to go. You served us well but you were a busted flush 10 years ago.

  91. bromley boy

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:05 #84608

    that must rank as one of Wengers worst performances as our manager couldnt see any mental strength at all so please dont ever spout that saying again wenger

  92. mbg

    Feb 28, 2016, 16:00 #84607

    Not fit for f*****g purpose, the whole f*****g lot of them useless. wenger out now.

  93. Mark from Aylesbury

    Feb 28, 2016, 15:28 #84606

    Mugged up again didn't even test the rookie fallback . Will Arsenal actually play well again this season?

  94. Mark from Aylesbury

    Feb 28, 2016, 14:55 #84605

    My god let that be the turning point of our season. The team need a good performance and UTD are still vulnerable. Come on you Gunners!

  95. Gav Lee

    Feb 28, 2016, 14:42 #84604

    2-0 down to worst ever Man Utd team. Please just leave Wenger and you can take 80% of the players with you.

  96. mbg

    Feb 28, 2016, 13:57 #84603

    John F, and Giroud by the Ernie the fastest milk cart in the west appreciation society, that explains why he hasn't been scoring, his heads been turned by an old mare they have.

  97. mbg

    Feb 28, 2016, 13:30 #84602

    John F,jj, yes did you ever hear the like, really scraping the barrel with excuses now, (that's a new one for the ABK's now)what a fraud of a manager. Go now old man.

  98. mbg

    Feb 28, 2016, 13:19 #84601

    Just seen the man u line up if TOF and his team can't beat that lot (and I know we've lost to worse)he should resign immediately, preferably in the tunnel.

  99. jjetplane

    Feb 28, 2016, 12:54 #84600

    Can WEstIE give us the facts on who has destabilised Arsene FC over the last decade or so to only go to another club and WIN trophies? Since when was ambition a factor at Arsene FC - probably explains why Sanchez is feeling underwhelmed and Flamini and Arteta are so happy ... More importantly is how many times has Arnold Webster being tapped up? Not as many as super Sam ... lol! Even more ironic that the one who will be fielding mass interest is the coach at the dear old Totts ....

  100. John F

    Feb 28, 2016, 12:37 #84599

    Augustus, I heard a rumour that Wally is being tapped up by the wheel tappers and shunters social club 2nd 11.Might explain his performances too.

  101. Augustus Flair

    Feb 28, 2016, 12:10 #84598

    John F: Not to worry about players' heads being turned by other clubs now according to our Glorious Leader. That's excellent news, though I still have a nagging feeling we'll be beaten today and that Ramsey will perform his speciality 12th man for the opposition role by continually giving the ball away. Perhaps he is being tapped up by other clubs; perhaps Barcelona have conducted secret negotiations... "Hey, Aaron boyo, we can't go on with the rubbish we've got. Come and join us, mate... and bring Mikel too."

  102. jjetplane

    Feb 28, 2016, 12:06 #84597

    Having supported Arsenal from the 60s to the move to your beloved shopping emporium WESTIE then yes I do support an Arsenal that really had spirit and did not need to spout it in plastic, nasal tones every ****ing week! I don't go because I do not like what has happened to the club. You don't go because you love what has happened to the club. Do the math on that Stan's boy ....

  103. jjetplane

    Feb 28, 2016, 11:40 #84596

    So Arnold is saying the spirit has not been good for 12 years because the players were being tapped up by other clubs but now it is different and 'the spirit is good.' Let's just blame it all on Gallas and the 'extremely difficult financial times (EDFT)' and move on and secure 4th again. ps WEstiE loves Stan and really hates Usmanov oh and Leicester and a resurgent Chelski, Stoke, the little Totts, Man City/Utd, Fergie, GG (likes his body though). When exactly did you predict the Totts and the Foxes would fall by the wayside? ..... Good old Stan FC.

  104. John F

    Feb 28, 2016, 11:37 #84595

    It is good to know that according to Wenger that our title challenges in the past have failed not due to tactics,lack of character or lack of investment but due to other clubs tapping up our players and unsettling the team. I would also like to add poor Ref decisions,teams being little bit too rough, windy days,over sexed girlfriends and me forgetting to wear my lucky underpants.

  105. Westlower

    Feb 28, 2016, 11:32 #84594

    Arsenal are favourites to win at OT for the first time in PL history. MU 5/2, draw 12/5, AFC 5/4. @JJ, If you consider yourself a proper Gooner, then we really are in trouble. You change your allegiance like the wind. In your expert & well weathered opinion, are Leicester playing like Champions??? Now as low as 5/2 to win the PL, Arsenal remain favourites at 13/8, Leic 5/2, TH 11/4, Citeh 8/1, MU 200/1. They'll be a big shake up in the market if Arsenal fail to win at OT.

  106. jjetplane

    Feb 28, 2016, 11:18 #84593

    Westie they got through in the 89th minute and that's what champions elect do - pick up 3 points. Please remind us how many goals Arsene FC have scored in the last month ... If the Totts win today and your excuse for an Arsenal club fall down scoreless at a 'free scoring' OT then I look forward to your numbers. Looks like you hit rock bottom now you thinking Sanogo is as good as er Vardy! Great post Patreick and good to hear from a proper Arsenal supporter and not one who googles Arsenal history to death ... lol!

  107. Augustus Flair

    Feb 28, 2016, 11:00 #84592

    I remember that 8-2 embarrassment all too well and let's hope we never see the like again. However, despite a cocktail of stimulants and a series of positive thinking sessions at my local ashram, I cannot sense anything here other than a narrow defeat - 2-1 perhaps - with the trundling figure of Per looming large in my mind, having committed another disastrous error, the ones to which he is prone. For all that, come on you Gunners!

  108. Westlower

    Feb 28, 2016, 9:24 #84591

    Goal machine Yaya Sanogo has scored as many league goals in 2016 as Giroud, Walcott & Sanchez combined. It's a good day to start scoring chaps! The next 7 days will decide our PL fate. Usmanov's business partner Farhad Moshiri has bought a 49.9% stake in Everton. Does that suggest Stan is at Arsenal for the long haul?

  109. Westlower

    Feb 28, 2016, 8:28 #84590

    @Patrick, You are correct in saying Hartson, Kiwomya & Helder were GG's last signings. In fact Helder joined a week before GG was sacked. What a great experience for you being a ball boy at that time. Did you get an invite to the Tuesday night drinking club? @JJ, Your Foxes struggled against the parked bus.

  110. Patrick

    Feb 28, 2016, 6:39 #84589

    Now I don't profess to being any kind of facts expert or man of knowledge, but I'm pretty sure lydersson and Jensen were far from being Graham's last two signings. They were the ones exposed in the bung issues. That season I was lucky enough to be a ball boy and I remember kiwomya, hartson and the Lionel Richie of Highbury, Glenn helder, being the last signings. They indeed were far from world beaters. It was a piss poor season but despite that the team managed to beat a load of good teams to get to the cup winners cup final. As a 16 year old ball boy I remember being in awe of seeing and hearing the teams professionalism up close. Their attitude and commitment to succeed was clear. I remember in the sampdoria semi boule telling us all to slow down with throwing the balls back and other such sensible things. This team seem to have the professionalism and priorities of Justin beiber. All about personal image and prone to "poor me" spats

  111. Alsace

    Feb 27, 2016, 21:39 #84588

    Apparently the idiot wants to sell Oxlade. I tell you what. Can we sell /give away for nothing, Walcott, Ramsey and Arteta? Oh yes and most especially Wenger. There isnt any thing wrong with the Ox that a proper manager would not fix.

  112. mbg

    Feb 27, 2016, 19:23 #84587

    Westlower, nice one, funnily enough a guy I know (who had no real interest in football)was on Holiday somewhere in Spain I can't remember where about ten years ago now, him and his girl friend plonked themselves down on the beach and said hello to this guy he recognised him from somewhere but couldn't think where, it was George and he had this blonde with him, and they started chatting he said George was more impressed that he didn't know who he was, later he told me George got up and went to this weights area and started pumping iron and even then had a superb physique with all these young guys standing around watching him he the started playing football with them after, not volley ball mind, and he never said if he was wearing speedos, after a while a crowd gathered and they left.

  113. jjetplane

    Feb 27, 2016, 17:20 #84584

    Championes elect Leicester City!

  114. Westlower

    Feb 27, 2016, 17:05 #84583

    Hat trick king Yaya Sanogo!

  115. Hiccup

    Feb 27, 2016, 14:52 #84582

    Funny how the all knowing AKB's knew categorically that no funds were available several years ago. Now we're awash with money, they don't commit to knowing, saying that it's a mystery what's available. You couldn't make it up. Amos to the rescue, please!

  116. jjetplane

    Feb 27, 2016, 14:30 #84581

    Wenger could have had a great career as an accountant .... wait a minute!

  117. Westlower

    Feb 27, 2016, 14:11 #84580

    @mbg, I probably knew before most that GG's days were numbered. We were on the tube coming away from an Eric Clapton Blues concert at the Royal Albert Hall when GG sat opposite us. He got out at the Arsenal station, it was nearly midnight by now. I remember thinking that all is not well if GG is heading back to his office. Two days later he was sacked. I always felt that the board didn't back him enough in the transfer market, after walking the league in 90/91. We all thought George would create a dynasty but sadly it never happened. The flip side of that argument is that GG wasn't happy getting involved in big money transfers, preferring to buy in Poundland rather than Harrods. His final two transfers of Jensen & Lyderson were his death knell. He was a better coach than manager. One of my favourite players when he was brought in as Joe Baker's replacement. Didn't have Joe's instinct to be a great striker but had some subtle touches for a big man. The number 10 role was perfect for him. He wasn't called 'Stroller' for nothing, everything happened in his time & on his terms. Great header & powerful shot. His wedding day photos made the gossip pages of the papers, with his best man Terry Venables by his side. The press labelled him Gorgeous George, he could easily have had an alternative career as a male model.

  118. Bard

    Feb 27, 2016, 13:47 #84579

    In all the hoopla surrounding this team at the moment its easy to forget how they have deteriorated over the last season or so. We have a good keeper, 2 good full backs, Ozil and Sanchez maybe Kos on a good day The rest of the team are piss poor. Ramsey, Wally and the Ox have gone backwards, BFG is finished and the Coq and Giroud are bang average. Add in the fact that the football they have played has been pretty poor for most of the season its frankly amazing that Wenger manages to get away with it.

  119. Ron

    Feb 27, 2016, 12:33 #84578

    Yes, Westie 79 was one of those 'horrible but enjoyable' moments in life wasnt it to say the least. Its gets recalled as a great game doesnt it, but it was quite poor really save for the goals salvos. John F - i reckon fans and players alike were complacent in 78 yet Ipswich were already showing themselves to an excellent team by then. I can only ever recall from that game is Geddes really just ripping Arsenal up down our left with ease and we just let him do it. 1980 was a case of the team being knackered and arrogant in equal measure. So glad i missed that one!! Its a travesty what the modern game has done to the FAC. Football should be ashamed of itself. Id switch that god awful ECL back to Champs only tomorrow if left to me. Its a devalued over hyped load of rubbish that been elevated to its present false pedestal by the engine of greed by corrupt f----rs who run UEFA and FIFA. The last Final i watched was ours in 06. The authorities will wake up one day and see it for what it is. There are many great fans of AFC and the other Clubs who detest it as much too. I do accept though that Arsenals p--s poor ventures into it does partly fuel my dislike of it. Its only ever brought embarrassment upon AFC. The guys on BT said this morning that we ought to just stick a team out at Barca next time and just say f--k it and give it a mad go, go toe to toe with them and sod whether the team loses 8-0 or not. I think that. Nobody cares now or gives a toss really. Wenger would get a bit more respect from me if he had the courage to do it. We all know he wont .... and yet he ll still get slaughtered. We speak of the game back in 78 etc. It was a far better experience being a fan back then and ill always hold to that. Todays football is muted, sterile and devoid of energy and passion by comparison. We didn t need televisions and plastic bags to stoke up our fires as fans back then did we guys. It was a given wasnt it... oh and Badarse i dont want a tedious rant of how football reflects today's society and that only you 'understand' these things with yr usual fraudulent dirge. We know this. Its a football site. nobody else wants to read that trash on here either.

  120. Westlower

    Feb 27, 2016, 12:29 #84577

    @mbg, Nobody hates GG. Just disappointed his Arsenal career ended on such a low after he'd taken us to the summit a few years earlier. Too many highs to have anything but the highest regard for George. I bet he wished he could have his time again to ensure a happier conclusion. He simply lost his way in his final year. Will always be an Arsenal legend, both as a player and a manager.

  121. Torbay gooner

    Feb 27, 2016, 11:52 #84576

    Thanks Robert, that 98 game was a massive six pointer and Ferguson knew he was in trouble after. Listened to that game on capital gold, when ear plugs would have come in handy listening to Jon Pearce! Loved the 98 team, and true we had some luck in 03/04, but what team winning a title does not. How on earth did Manure win that treble when they should have lost the semi final to us and the final to Bayern? The 04 team will always be special and in those records books for quite some time I figure.

  122. mbg

    Feb 27, 2016, 11:47 #84575

    Some AKB's are back they must have dug themselves out from central command, or smell a win, isn't it hilarious how they make out to be such super Arsenal fans but hate the clubs most popular manager of all time. I wonder why that is. You couldn't make it up.

  123. mbg

    Feb 27, 2016, 11:36 #84574

    A lot of talk about man u being there for the taking, Quite true, (so is/was the league and look how we're ballsing that up) yes we should be stuffing the worst man u team in arguably the history of the prem, but any body who thinks we will, or even fancies us to think again, this in an Arsenal under wenger we're talking about and if any manager and his team are capable of ballsing it up and bottling it it's them.

  124. anthony walters

    Feb 27, 2016, 11:24 #84573

    ron/westie i was there that 1979 cup final too 14 years old at the beginning.44 years old at the end lol.

  125. Westlower

    Feb 27, 2016, 11:09 #84572

    @Ron I've never been through an emotional wringer like the 79 final. It was different from the Lane 71 & Anfield 89, in that this time we had the Cup in our hands and then it was snatched away. At 2-0 with 5 minutes to go we were certain winners. When they pulled one back in the 86th minute, I wasn't overly concerned because it was too little, too late. On 88 minutes I was devastated when they equalised. It was hard to take in what was happening. We're the Arsenal, we don't throw away 2 goal leads in a Cup Final do we? United had their tales up and Arsenal's players looked dejected & tired. Brady & Rix could always conjure up a piece of magic and they came up with the goods in the shadow of the post. I thought my heart would explode as Sunderland planted the ball into the back of the net. Que pandemonium. The icing on the cake was that I'd had a stupid bet on Arsenal winning 3-2 at 40/1. It has to be the best day of my life. Teams: AFC. Jennings, Rice, Nelson, Young, O'Leary, Price (Walford), Talbot, Brady, Stapleton, Sunderland, Rix. MU. Bailey, Nicholl, Albiston, Buchan, McQueen, Thomas, McIlroy, Coppell, Greenoff, Jordan, Macari. Goal scorers: Talbot 12, Stapleton 43, Sunderland 89. McQueen 86, McIlroy 88.

  126. Westlower

    Feb 27, 2016, 10:32 #84571

    @Mark, It appears Usmanov is content with his long term investment for "the enjoyment of himself & his family, for generations to come." Very much a sleeping partner it seems? Probably need some help from Amos on deciphering the 6 months financial result's from Arsenal Holdings plc. The papers are reporting AFC have cash reserves of £159.4m. The actual amount reported by A.H plc is £135.9m which excludes balances designated as debt service reserves, down from cash reserves of £138.8m in 2014. The Group reported an overall loss of £3.4m, down from a profit of £6.2m in 2014. Amortisation (depreciation) charge on player registrations further increased to £29.2m from £25.6m in 2014. Transfer activity for this period was £39.4m. This sum is made up from the Cech transfer and installment payments on past transfers. Given the cash reserves have to cover the day to day running of the club, it remains a mystery as to how much is actually available for future transfer business.

  127. John F

    Feb 27, 2016, 10:01 #84570

    Hi Ron you are right it was such an entertaining side to watch but i felt we had pace in Supermac.78 was my first season when i attended every home and London game and as a billy no mates as all my friends were CFC fans.I remember bricking it going from Richmond station to Upton park Ithink it is 32 stops the closer i got the more my 15 yr old body would shake.The 78 final was my first and most disappointing just could not see us losing and i certainly took some stick when I got home.That Ipswich side turned out to be special similar to this seasons Leicester.

  128. Ron

    Feb 27, 2016, 9:37 #84569

    R/K - Re the 78-80 team. Its good that you say that about that team. Without a doubt it was my favorite time as a fan. Loved that team. Went to the 78 and 79 Finals. The feeling in 79 was as good as being at Anfield 10 years later. For me anyway. Possibly the most skilled team we ve ever had i d suggest. We lacked a bit of physical presence and also some pace didnt we to supplement our finesse i always thought, though Brian Talbot did his best. Stapleton was a good player and i always hoped O Leary would have developed into a top AFC Manager after his time with Leeds but it wasnt to be. Same old story really, a few tweaks made well might have made that team a title winning team, but Terry Neill was perhaps a little too laid back? I Iiked him though. As you say, that team had some mental grit. I think our perceptions of teams we ve had , whether we win trophies or not is often shaped by whats going on in our lives at the time isnt it. I was into the best time for me playing the game at my humble levels in that period from 77 to about 84 and it supplemented going to games at the Arse really well whenever i could. Never needed any season tickets back then either. The touts always gave good service to a few of us for the big games back then once you got to know the right ones!!

  129. anthony walters

    Feb 27, 2016, 9:31 #84568

    yeah westie i agree to some degree. nasri had one outstanding half season and great moments but has he kicked on to the player he could have been.hleb i thought was class ball carrier but very little e d product,song did become vital to us but never improved his decision making in the defensive third sloppy passes and dwelling on the ball regularly though before coquelin not replaced properly.rvp was brilliant for manu when they won the league but faded after that one season.sagna i rated highly and would still have him in my squad as cover at right and centre back but bellerin is brilliant.i generally don't boo ex players when they come back to the emirates only 2 are cole and adebayor for the way they left.

  130. sid

    Feb 27, 2016, 7:57 #84567

    You're wasting your time colesy. That MUG, sorrry, MBG doesn't know anything positive. Lots to say. Little to offer.

  131. Mark from Aylesbury

    Feb 26, 2016, 23:10 #84566

    Usmanov has bought over 30% of the shares. Does this mean he legally has to make an offer. Obviously Kronke doesn't have to sell

  132. anthony walters

    Feb 26, 2016, 22:57 #84565

    mgb that was all reasoned analysis .that doesn't mean i don't question wenger .is he getting the best out of what i consider a generally excellent group of players.i don't believe this lot are bottlers as they have won too much around the world. giroud is also not crap or a carthorse he is a consistently very good striker not a great one the only way we can win the title is for more goals absolutely agree with that .that it should be down to not having a great striker i don't agree with goals need to come from 3 or 4 getting around double figures so welbeck walcott ramsey ozil need to score some goals to help giroud.that i believe will be key.only my opinion. i do take your point koscielney conceded 2 goals turning his back this season and i blame monreal v chelsea at home ambled to the crosser then turned his back.george graham rightly would have gone bonkers so would i if i was manager .is wenger doing enough to correct these basic faults ?i ask that.i also question why ramsey sanchez as song used to give the ball away with poor decision making in our defensive third. times are different would george graham with todays player power and rich agents be able to succeed ?we just don't know but mourinho has so why not george? i posted on here a week or so before you what george graham did against parma with injuries playing selley and morrow was fantastic.wenger would not have been succesful i am convinced of that.does wenger have another title in him over this or next season? i think there is a good chance. does he have a champions league in him with us ?i believe almost certainly not as i believe he can beat europes elite in matches but not consistently good enough to beat enough of the better teams barca bayern etc to win the trophy.only my opinions of course if you see me thinking him as a messiah fair enough but i don't think that is the case. each great side we have had have still had flaws someone mentioned the 98 side as the best .maybe so but i still believe there was a couple of major flaws in that squad and up until we signed adebayor and rvp everybody in attack was hopeless in the air which would have won more.ie henry missed an open goal in the uefa cup final.attacking corners were hopeless too.

  133. John Gage

    Feb 26, 2016, 22:52 #84564

    @Ron: Had some friends in Florence and used to watch a fair amount of Fiorentina games too. Lived in Florence for a year. I remember enjoying watching Toldo, Schwarz, and also a very underrated player Flachi. Above all the great Batistuta, absolutely unbelievable when he had glimpse of goal, one of the best natural finishers I have ever seen. He could be invisible for 89 minutes but when the chance fell to him you just KNEW where the ball would end up. If only Arsenal had a striker half as good...

  134. Cyril

    Feb 26, 2016, 22:27 #84563

    John F: I remember playing footy as a kid around that time. I was sad a lot cos DH didn't cut it. His time was with Mee. Point being it was only a few later that graham changed it all. Wenger has stagnated my club for over TEN YEARS. I suffer from being old enough to compare sadly...

  135. John F

    Feb 26, 2016, 22:07 #84562

    The 78/80 team was one of my favourite s.Terry Neill certainly lifted the club when he took over but with the team we had he should of done better in the league.We never recovered when Brady left who still is my favourite ever Arsenal player.I felt a bit sorry for Neill after the Wallsal defeat and I always remember him being serenaded by the upton park faithfull with your going to get the sack.On the demise of the double team Bob Wilson on radio 5 a few weeks ago mentioned there was a bit of unrest in the dressing room after Don Howe went to West Brom with some players not happy with the coaching,Don was a hard act to follow.

  136. Cyril

    Feb 26, 2016, 21:37 #84561

    Ron, how are you, well I'm sure. Kenny , I'm on board. Don't forget we also had Platt. I loved him. Nuggets like him and Woodcock after being in the field. I spoke to a chelski fan and he is fuming we are labouring, he points out we must win this league. He's more Wenger out than many I know. Most fans are in tune. Everyone knows we should take it this year. Yet Wenger tells us it's hard graft. Look what we will face next year. Shame on u Wenger if u don't sort this.Wenger your a lovely ol' boy but sign this off and go and enjoy yourself.... Please!!!

  137. 80's Gooner

    Feb 26, 2016, 21:21 #84560

    GG really only had two bad seasons 92-93 & 94-95 His saving grace in 93 was the two domestic cups but we were woeful that season. I remember taking my Aussie mate to his first game on the May bank holiday at home to Villa which we lost 1-0 & I remember apologising to him afterwards for such crap game. GG was sacked in 95 before the fans had a chance to turn on him & the on the day he was sacked Nick Hornby laid a reef on the Fever pitch west end stage. I honestly thought that after 91 Arsenal would become the team of the 90's. Not sure what happened but we were never quite the same after losing at home to Benfica. Just like we have never been quite the same after losing to the 50th game to Man u in 04 Paul Merson believes that GG could only have achieved what he with young players effectively earning peanuts. GG sides were a mixture youth & seasoned pros. AW sides used to be a mixture of youth, unearthed gems & the odd Steller signing with exception of the 98 side. Interestingly AW stated that his team were not at the right technical level after losing to Barca. Well whos fault is that? There will be no hiding place for AW if Leicester or Spurs finish above Arsenal this season. But somewhere in the back of my mind I can't help feeling that the backward looking board have played a part in Arsenals shortcomings over the last few years. Pre-Dean we sold Brady & Stapleton & replaced them with Hawley & Rankin Post-Dean we sold, Cesc,RVP,& Nasri with adequate immediate replacements

  138. goonercolesyboy

    Feb 26, 2016, 20:47 #84559

    Let's get some perspective then Muguiresbridge from you about your messiah GG? He is the only person that gets you moist, to use one of your favourite adjectives. So let's hear all about your love and idolation for GG.

  139. mbg

    Feb 26, 2016, 20:34 #84558

    anthony walters, try to be as balanced as possible, fair enough, and some good posts, but glad you use the words, as possible, as there's still plenty of excuses in there for your hero maybe even messiah ? having first dibs on players, don't have to battle, can stay fresh (is that not what squads are for) no mid winter break (that's a new one)physical pace, really ? etc, etc, for someone who says he's not bothered either way and as balanced as possible there's a hell of a lot of reasons/excuses there for and why wenger can't succeed. And we all know where the excuses come from on here.

  140. anthony walters

    Feb 26, 2016, 18:39 #84557

    radfordkennedy .loved that era as thats when i went to most home arsenal matches between 78 and 84 then deciding to play saturdays going a handfull of matches a season until my emirates season ticket.sadly a side with one or two additions could have been champions but brady then stapleton went along came mediocrity.agree about fight and team spirit .89 91 side i think had it too.

  141. Westlower

    Feb 26, 2016, 18:38 #84556

    @Anthony - You're right to say Bertie Mee broke up the 70's team too soon but he isn't alone in that. In my time, David Herd to MU, Geoff Strong to L'pool, Charlie George to Derby, Jon Sammels to Leicester, Frank McLintock to QPR, Ray Kennedy to L'pool, Liam Brady to Juventus, Frank Stapleton to MU, Martin Keown to Villa & Everton before he returned to AFC, Ashley Cole to CFC, Nicklas Anelka to Real Madrid, Cesc Fabregas to Barcelona being prime examples. The water gets muddy during the Emirates move with many players sold for 'financial' reasons, RVP, Nasri, Song, Clichy, Sagna, Hleb, etc. Mostly sold at the right time IMO.

  142. anthony walters

    Feb 26, 2016, 18:00 #84555

    ron i try to be as balanced as possible though i appreciate arsene wengers management over the years i also see his flaws .i honestly believe wenger hasn't spent money for good reasons football wise right or wrong.he is desperate to succeed i believe whether he has lost that special ability to win titles remains to be seen .champions league i can't see him ever winning with us.europa possibly.i personally think a more tactically minded manager could do better in the champions league though . arsenal nor premier league teams are an attractive proposition for the worlds greatest attacking players .psg bayern barca and real will have first dibs on those because they get champions league football yearly ,titles , big money and don't have a battle most matches they can coast in most and stay fresh for big matches. no midwinter break in england either.arsenal are seen as a sicknote club but liverpool manu city etc have all had long injury lists this season due to the physical pace and demands of our league.of the 14 of the 30 richest clubs in europe are in the premiership with the new tv deal next season all 20.this means lesser clubs in england have world class players and they can resist the arsenal city chelsea man united when after their players.ie far and away the most evenly contested league in europe though the best probably not up with europes 3 or 4 elite clubs.that's the reality and an owner who history of sports teams he owns in the u.s.win little but are finacially profitable which he seems happy with. though we do have 2 fa cup wins in 2 years.

  143. mbg

    Feb 26, 2016, 17:47 #84554

    jw, yes did you hear the useless dwarfs mouthing off we're going to do this and that, spin spin, pathetic the lot of them, they played a team the other night, hull, and that was their level (and it showed) they'd probably struggle in that division too and that's being kind, anything to divert the pressure off this old past it manager.

  144. Radfordkennedy

    Feb 26, 2016, 17:34 #84553

    Anthony Walters...hello mate I'm from the generaation just before yours but I missed the joe baker era by a a fag paper mate , but what I can tell you is that 70/71 team would fight for each other till the end mate,I might be wrong because it's just my opinion but that great double team was un settled by Alan Ball who commanded such a wage so different from from the rest of the squad that the dressing room fell apart.........Ron you've nailed it as ever mate and yes I thought the 98 team were exceptional but i have to say I thought the team twixt 78-80 were just the best ,I know we won little but if I had to pick a team to play for my life that team of Brady Rix Stapleton O'leary Sunderland was for me what Arsenal are all about,yes we could get beat during that period ,but I always thought a team had to play bloody well to beat us and they knew they had a fight on their hands

  145. mbg

    Feb 26, 2016, 17:33 #84552

    Kenny, but there's those who would try and rewrite history and have us believe their messiah did.

  146. anthony walters

    Feb 26, 2016, 16:57 #84551

    westie totally agree .mee knew his limitations .i don't remember 1971 era much as i was only 7 but studying the history mee broke the trophy drought with the 3 trophies in 2 seasons but a fair criticism is that was a relatively young side and he broke it up far too quickly mcclintock george kennedy all did superbly elsewhere .i enjoy much of your analysis .fergie is the greatest british manager no doubt in my mind because of his achievements with aberdeen and man u however when he left i did say fergie man utds advantage they had with intimidation of referees at old trafford was worth many points.this can't be proved but how jeff winter claims he was exiled from utd matches after he gave a big decision against them and revelations from mark halsey that after he retired he was releived utd won comfortably after his first match there certainly implies refs felt intimidated by fergie there with the fa overlooking it whereas in europe referees couldn't be influenced by fear of fergies wrath.anyway mate catch you with another post of to tennis practise with the mrs soon.

  147. Ron

    Feb 26, 2016, 16:47 #84550

    The crux of what Mr Walters and Westie say is that having a good youth system gives a Club continuity and the quality of it is evidenced by the number of young players that a new Coach can use and prosper with. Unfortunately for us and of course unfortunately for those of the keep backing Arsene persuasion, this issue raises the question of what young players our next incumbent will build a new team with. Its seems to me that we have precious little to leave him and a more or less bankrupt youth policy. Ironic really when you think Wenger s most pronounced and smug leathery grins used to be unveiled following Carling Cup wins in the period when 'project youth' ruled supreme and fooled all of us at some stage (yes, be honest lads, ALL of us) into thinking he really did have a midas touch for young talent as the Vela s and Senderos s et al used to be acclaimed loudly. GG had Neill/Howe and others and Mee had Wright to thank profusely for their subsequent success. Mr Walters - i doubt there's been a coach anywhere yet that didn't have some success from the players he inherited, so your post hasn't taught anybody anything really has it, so it wont generate any arguing really will it. JJ - Shame AW thinks that way about the Europa Cup. We are a EC team in truth and all of these years we ve f----d about pretending to be better, we would in my view realistically have enhanced our poor euro record by one or two EC wins, even under AW had we have been in it. Would that have been more enjoyable than the lousy and oft embarrassing ECL existence we ve endured for so long? I think so, but the Club wouldn't. Cash comes first of course.

  148. jjetplane

    Feb 26, 2016, 16:43 #84549

    But did you know that the Ox is apparently a midfield player? Jack, Theo and Aaron too ..... Amazing really ..... Anything more the implosion of Leicester? Totts? Never mind.

  149. Westlower

    Feb 26, 2016, 16:05 #84547

    @Anthony Walters. Just for completeness. The 16 players who featured for the 70/71 double winners, were made up of 7 inherited players from Billy Wright's tenure: Armstrong, McLintock, Radford, Sammels, Simpson, Storey, Wilson. 5 through the youth system: Rice (64), Nelson (66), Kelly (66), George (68), Kennedy (68). 4 bought in: Graham, McNab, Roberts, Marinello. Bertie Mee's best signings were coaches Dave Sexton & Don Howe.

  150. Bard

    Feb 26, 2016, 15:11 #84546

    As a rather unwelcome distraction I bring you some sad but unsurprising news. I have been sacked by Helen after failing to score 5 of the last 8 times we have been together. I have been will but unable. I have tried out to in, going round the back and even going directly up the middle but once I get near the box I cant seem to make it count. To make matters worse she has fallen for some Argentinian midget who just stands around doing very little and then bang he wrong foots her and scores. She says its over so quickly she barely has time to remove her clothing but at least ..... you get the picture. Im going to try and put it behind me and focus on trying to score in Manchester at the weekend. Apparently they are desperate and hopeless up there so I might get lucky.

  151. jjetplane

    Feb 26, 2016, 15:07 #84545

    Arsene is saying he now regrets not beating Barca .... Barca are now saying they regret letting Arsene FC off the hook and will make thorough amends at the next match. Webster is looking like rge poor man of Europe with all the Mancs and the Totts enjoying themselves. Reckon old Webster would be terrified to land in the Europa as all Europe would be looking for a piece of this perverse regime. The Mancs bolstered by a cracking tie with the Scousers will be well fired yd for Sunday whereas the deflated on all fronts Arsene FC are looking a real sorry bunch. Couple of losses now and it really is the end. The good news is ....

  152. Made Up Stat

    Feb 26, 2016, 14:40 #84544

    Ruud van ****himself la la la la la......

  153. anthony walters

    Feb 26, 2016, 14:21 #84543

    facts for you lot to argue over either way .neither bothers me as i appreciate george graham and arsene wengers contribution inmensely. from arsenal.com in grahams third full season 1988-89 arsenal won the league 15 players got championship medals .lukic o'leary thomas rocastle davis merson hayes adams - dixon winterburn richardson marwood groves smith.8 players inherited 7 from our youth were there before george graham.lukic bought from leeds .7players george graham bought. wenger in almost his second full season won the league 19 players got championship medals. seaman dixon adams keown bould winterburn parlour bergkamp platt wright hughes - petit vieira overmars anelka wreh grimandi garde boa morte. 11 inherited players 8 wenger bought. other players contributed the odd game here and there .manninger contributed 7 times in 97-98 wenger bought him. use those facts as you will.

  154. mbg

    Feb 26, 2016, 13:01 #84540

    Kenny, Ron, yes indeed, I wonder would we have won what we did under the weng if he hadn't inherited what he did (the back four five for a start)and had to start from scratch, with his knowledge (sorry lack off) of defenders, defending, and keepers I think we know the answer, we and more importantly weng have a lot to thank George Graham for.

  155. Ron

    Feb 26, 2016, 12:49 #84539

    Yes, theres a case there to say GN is right Westie, no doubt about that. Pleased to see him winning a few now, though im a bit of a Viola follower ( some good friends in and around Florence) Dont mention last night though!

  156. mbg

    Feb 26, 2016, 12:46 #84537

    WABATTD, spot on there TOF goes to these places (indeed all grounds)and just waits, hopes for things to happen as if by magic he hasn't a fooking clue how to make them happen.

  157. David

    Feb 26, 2016, 12:43 #84536

    Westie - on the issue of great managers - I would've described Wenger as a great manager up until ten years ago. He made all the right decisions - transfers and tactics - and after 2004 all the biggest clubs in Europe wanted him. It was amazing that he stayed at Arsenal without being able to compete financially with Man U. Chelsea etc. I've no doubt that had he gone to Barcelona or Real Madrid in 2004 he would've won the lot. Maybe in the long run keeping Arsenal in a competitive position for 10 years (near the top of the PL, always in the CL) will be the thing that leads to even greater triumphs. It's just difficult to see it happening under Wenger; he's not the manager he once was.

  158. mbg

    Feb 26, 2016, 12:34 #84534

    Great picture to accompany your article Robert, I have one something similar possibly the next frame with Keown jumping up on Horse face signed and framed. Now there was a player who took no shyte, along with a few others you just have to look at the photo to see why TOF bluffed us all for so long and was made to look good.

  159. Westlower

    Feb 26, 2016, 12:33 #84533

    Just to put some meat on the bones of Ron & Kenny's post, the teams at OT in 98. MU: Schmeichel, G Neville, Irwin, Berg, Curtis (Thornley), Johnsen (May), P Neville (Solskjaer), Scholes, Beckham, Cole, Sheringham. AFC: Manniger AW, Dixon GG, Keown GG, Adams GG, Winterburn GG, Parlour GG (Garde AW), Vieiri AW, Petit AW, Overmars AW, DB10 BR, Wreh AW (Anelka AW). Attendance 55,174. Goal scorer - Overmars. @Ron, Gary Neville reckons this was our best ever side.

  160. Ron

    Feb 26, 2016, 12:25 #84532

    SKG - It certainly was a good side. Perhaps the best post war side we ve had. 2004 side had class and verve, but was always a bit flakey. Ill always maintain that 49 game run was touched by so much good fortune at times. We won games that we used to wonder how we'd managed to at times away from home. The way it collapsed allowing 'mardy arse' mode to creep in after the OT loss wasn't really a surprise was it. That's Wengers legacy for me - he made AFC a mentally feeble, mardy arsed Club.

  161. Seven Kings Gooner

    Feb 26, 2016, 12:15 #84530

    Ron : Wenger best team definitely 97/98 but seeing that footage after the OT brawl and George laying down a few ground rules makes you realize what a "ballsy" outfit that 91 side was, if I had to choose a team to get a result it would be that team.

  162. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Feb 26, 2016, 12:07 #84529

    To win of course means needing to score at least one goal. Something that hasn't been happening too much of late. Cue the good old tabloid standby: Arsenal - this is a ball. This is a goal. Put one into the other. If I was one of the pond life "earning" a living in the Street of Shame I'd be getting the back page already run off for Sunday.

  163. jeff wright

    Feb 26, 2016, 11:58 #84528

    The stats that show we are top of the pops for creating chances - but only 19th in the pecking order for finishing them off with goals is hardly any big surprise. The evidence showing that we need a top striker has been there for donkey's years. The last top striker we had was RVP and he was sold to United for a box of coat buttons and a pocket full of marbles and helped win them a league title . We ended up getting a surplus to requirements Danny Welbeck off them later on - this however was hardly a case of revenge is a dish best served cold scenario. More like a beef stew minus the dumplings. Who can forget the ludicrous sight of Sanago starting in a Champions League game against Bayern Munich . Even funnier with us a goal down the other night to Barcelona was Wenger's super-sub that he sent on to try and rescue the situation - Flamini! A player he tried to off-load on a free last summer. My guess is that Wenger will start with Diving Danny on Sunday at United,he got lucky capitalizing on a defensive mistake to score in the FAC tie there on his last visit back home - there is no chance though that will ever knock in the number of goals for us that RVP did for United in that title winning season after he joined them. As for United's chances on Sunday it looks rather like a case of if they take their ones or if we take ours . It wouldn't be the biggest surprise either if Smalling and Martial have recovered from their injuries and trot out . Even without them United must be better at home then Hull were at the Emirates .Worryingly our usual suspects are at it again talking themselves up and threatening what they are going to do to United .LVG's team talk done! You couldn't make it up.

  164. Ron

    Feb 26, 2016, 11:52 #84527

    True Kenny, it was as much GGs, plus Bergy as Wengers team wasn't it. Wenger polished up the rougher diamonds didnt he and deserves credit for that, but the dynamic of the team ran on from GG and in fairness from Rioch.

  165. Kenny

    Feb 26, 2016, 11:41 #84525

    Ron-The 98 team dont you mean Grahams team.The back 5 and Parlour.And of course Wenger didnt sign player of the year Bergkamp

  166. Ron

    Feb 26, 2016, 11:30 #84523

    Jamie - you really mean that yr glad Rooneys not playing as its one or two less goals conceded seeing as hes been scoring for fun against us for 13 years. Arse have been sh-t scared of him since he was a 16 year old at Everton. All winning teams bend refs ears in subtle ways be it Sunday pub teams or Real Madrid. Do you think Admas, Bould, Parlour and McLintock et al used to chat about the weather with refs on the pitch? That we don't is one of the reasons Arsenal win little.

  167. Tony Evans

    Feb 26, 2016, 11:22 #84522

    Very well researched as usual, Robert. Not entirely confident about the OT visit this weekend - as Ron says any team wanting a result up there needs to be on their mettle and fully fired up, which is definitely not Wenger's forte. The resulting half-hearted nature of some of the awful 'performances' we have put in at OT are a direct result of this failure to get his team in the right frame of mind. Wenger can ramble on about mental strength all he likes but the sad truth is that on far too many occasions mental strength is just what his teams don't have.

  168. Ron

    Feb 26, 2016, 11:06 #84521

    Wengers best ever team Westie in my view, the 97-8 one. Had the lot. Poise, skill, guts, physical strength, age, cynicism, younger players and was the last side we ve had to have what we all used to recognise as 'Arsenal DNA' in it. That team would have beaten the 2003/4 lot more than it would have lost i reckon.

  169. Kenny

    Feb 26, 2016, 11:05 #84520

    Since Wenger arrived in England Man Utd have won 10 league titles and two CL's.Three cheers for Arsene Hip Hip

  170. Jamerson

    Feb 26, 2016, 10:58 #84519

    I'm glad Rooney's not playing as he tends to spend the majority of the game bending the refs ear and trying to get Manure decisions.We should have too much for this young manc team who despite having a few good youngsters and trying to play different to their usual hoof ball still look suspect in defence.I'm going for 3-2 to us with the ref giving them a few softies and the WOR having a quiet week.

  171. Westlower

    Feb 26, 2016, 10:56 #84518

    I was at OT in 98 when Overmars ran MU ragged. We knew we'd won the title that night. It was a special night, capped off by meeting Sir Bobby Charlton, who played on my first visit to Highbury back in 61. We'll never have a better chance of beating them due to their crippling injury list. It's unbelievable that players are getting injured during the warm up, both De Gea & Martial suffering the same fate this week. Are we at the tipping point of how far footballing athletes can be pushed? The FA also announcing the fixture list has become untenable. Lo & behold, yet another friendly International break coming up. The PL, FA, EUFA, FIFA & TV companies need to be locked in a room until they come up with a workable solution. Rarely are Arsenal favourites to win at OT, but they are on Sunday. Odds: MU 9/4, draw 9/4, AFC 11/8. Don't waste this winning opportunity.

  172. Ron

    Feb 26, 2016, 10:37 #84517

    A really good read Robert, though most of it is sad reading!! Brings so many memories to mind. I was at nearly all of those game bar the odd 1 or 2. The 1990 'brawl' has gone down in folklore but it was handbags really and not near so bad as the myth has been spread about it. We played ok in 2006 when Adebayor nicked that winner actually. A team needs balls to win at OT even when the Utd team isnt so good. Arsenal have rarely shown any there under Wenger or before him. The draws and the odd win we ve scratched out there have been down to luck in the main. The CL game there in 09 when we lost 1-0 really ought to have been 5-0, perhaps 6 even but for Almunia s saves. He had a great game that night. Tevez ran Arsenal ragged as i recall. Yes, Almunia and 'great' in the same sentence!!

  173. King Jeremy

    Feb 26, 2016, 10:28 #84515

    Oh, to have a team with the balls of that one pictured above, yes, including that chap front right. The attitude on social media this morning seems to be that United are there for the taking. Let's hope that mentality doesn't creep into the starting 11, but then this is Wenger we are talking about. I'm going for a drab 0-0.

  174. Ron

    Feb 26, 2016, 10:21 #84514

    Agree re Utd. Got some cracking kids in prospect. The silly media are dining out on Utd s patchy form but i think the 'project' (dont like that word in footie context really) there was all intended and i think they ll stick by LVG. The sheep follow the media s path of course. As you say, Wenger wont have the courage to go to OT and grab the game by the scruff of the neck. 'Waiting for some thing to happen' sums him and Arsenal up in matches there for years.

  175. Wear Your Colours

    Feb 26, 2016, 10:16 #84513

    Rob, I was at that game where Rocky got sent-off. It was GG's first season in charge and we had huge optimism about what was looking like our first title challenge in ages; however that defeat totally blew us off course. Whiteside made several bad challenges but I think there was one when he went over-the-top on O'Leary that really kicked it all off. At the end of the game Viv Anderson and George had to be restrained as it all exploded on the touchline. That game set the trend for some of the encounters that followed. Winterburn v McClair; Adams v Hughes; Vieira v Keane; Keown v van Nistleroy were all central to some of the intense games that followed.

  176. WeAreBuildingATeamToDominate

    Feb 26, 2016, 10:12 #84512

    re 2007/08: it wasn't just the 1-2 defeat at OT that cost us the title. The 1-2 defeat at the Bridge did that too. Both games saw AFC take the lead and then bottle it when the opposition stepped up. Oh, doesn't that sound familiar. Inspector Clueless simply goes to these places and waits for something to happen, with the usual outcome being a defeat. BTW this Man Utd side are not a shambles of a team by any stretch of the imagination.