Where we are – Part one: The Team and Manager

The state of things at Arsenal as the 2015-16 season comes to an end



Where we are – Part one: The Team and Manager


One of the least controversial quotes in the career of controversial former Conservative MP Enoch Powell came a few years after his defection from the Tories to the Ulster Unionists in 1977, claiming that: ‘all political lives, unless they are cut off in midstream at a happy juncture, end in failure, because that is the nature of politics and of human affairs’. This statement also seems to be true of pretty much all former Arsenal managerial giants to some extent, with the exception of Herbert Chapman who was cut off midstream at a rather unhappy juncture of passing away at the height of his powers at Highbury, from pneumonia just a few days into 1934 at the age of just fifty five.

All other Arsenal managers who have enjoyed success – George Allison, Tom Whitaker, Bertie Mee, Terry Neill, Don Howe (trophy-less as boss, but the tactical mastermind behind the Double winners and triple-Cup Finalists of the 1970s) and George Graham all faced a decline before the end of their reign (even though the latter was sacked for something other than Arsenal’s on-pitch performances). Arguably therefore, Wenger’s decline seems to be following in some sort of Highbury tradition, with the exception of the fact that none of the aforementioned were ultimately deemed by the Arsenal board to be irreplaceable (with the exception of the unfortunate Tom Whitaker, who died of a fatal attack while holding office after the strain of restoring Arsenal to greatness proved too much in October 1956).

Not being old enough to testify first hand whether Allison or Whitaker endured a campaign for their removal amongst Arsenal fans during their less successful period, dissent at the performance of latter four managerial giants is either something well documented or a personal memory of which I can testify. None of whom however endured the presence of the internet and social media, which funnily enough has probably made pushing the case for removing Wenger harder rather than easier due to the fact that certain voices on the internet have rather over simplified the case for his exit, which is actually a far more complex matter than they’ve ever acknowledged and certainly not one you can justifiably reduce to a soundbite you can bear on a placard to wave inside a stadium for Sky Sports to pick out on camera.

From a personal point of view, the internet and social media have been disastrous for the discourse of modern life – be it Football, Politics or whatever – and personally, really something of an enormous let down. Ten years ago, I was kind of optimistic that social media finally gave the man on the street a voice to express himself. Ten years later however, I’m beginning to empathise with Sid Vicious’s response when asked by a journalist if he made music for the man on the street - his answer being: ‘no, I’ve met the man in the street and he’s a c***!’ (and yes, before anyone points it out, the irony of me personally expressing this to the world at large on social media via an internet blog isn’t lost of me either!).

The trouble with social media is that - though it gives everyone a voice - that too also includes people either not bright enough, or articulate enough to put it to constructive use. Social media can often be ‘Platitude City’ – a place where people frequently confuse a right your own opinion with a right to an uncontested opinion, or even a right to your own facts. It’s often a place where discussion often gets replaced with argument, hence the rise of ‘trollism’ over the last decade which has often left me wondering whether world at large is incrementally becoming like participating in a never ending episode of that human form of bear-baiting known as the Jeremy Kyle Show.

With regard to the Wenger In/Out question, trollism really isn’t the preserve of one side or the other. Over the last five years or so of writing on this rather protracted and boring argument via this website and Twitter, I’ve personally been shot at by keyboard warriors on both sides of the fence. It is however the ‘Wenger Out’ Brigade’s trollism that depresses you most, because personally I think they’ve been in the right on this argument all along, but the reason in their argument has often been drowned out in over-simplification and personal abuse, which has been reductive and has if anything undermined the cause for Wenger’s exit for the best part of five years at least.

Firstly, though Arsenal have undoubtedly experienced a decline over the last decade, it’s one of a relative nature rather than an absolute decline which makes the case for Wenger’s removal all the more problematic. In the late nineties and early noughties, Arsenal enjoyed a run of eight straight seasons finishing in the top two, which is a run the club never even enjoyed during their previous two periods of sustained League success in the thirties under Chapman and Allison, nor in the late eighties and early nineties under George Graham. People often wrongly equate Wenger’s current situation to that of Brian Clough’s demise, which is wildly inaccurate.

Clough ultimately relegated Nottingham Forest, while Wenger in comparison is still yet to fall out of a qualification spot for a Champions League place. Around a decade ago an oligarchy of perpetual Champions League qualifiers developed – Chelsea, Man United, Liverpool and Arsenal. Ten years on, only one of these Clubs qualified this season - also the only one with an unbroken record of qualification in the years since - Arsene Wenger’s Arsenal. All of the other aforementioned sides have also experienced a relative decline too in the years since. In light of this, when Arsenal fans complain about Wenger’s finishing positions, they run the risk of opposition fans (particularly those of historically less successful sides, like say West Ham or even this year’s Champions Leicester City) viewing us in comparison as spoilt whingers with a sense of entitlement to success.

People have wrongly claimed that Wenger’s reputation is one built on fraud and the man too has been accused of being an under achiever, though nothing can be further from the truth - Wenger happens to be the Club’s most ever successful manager. No other Arsenal boss can boast of three championship title wins, he’s won the FA Cup as many times as all of his Arsenal predecessors put together and though he hasn’t won a European trophy, he has qualified for European competition for twenty seasons in a row (over the thirty years that preceded the post-Heysel ban for English clubs, Arsenal had only qualified for European competition on eight occasions). Wenger also oversaw if not the greatest Arsenal side of all-time, certainly the best side of my lifetime.

My latest #ThrowbackThursday/#FlashbackFriday series of articles has reminded me that, though I thoroughly enjoyed George Graham’s early pre-Premiership side (the latter post-Premiership Graham era, though a successful Cup side, were dire to watch and anyone who tells you differently is revisionist to say the least), none of GG’s sides were anywhere near as good as that of Wenger’s team of the early noughties - which encompassed achievements such as the invincible season, scoring for fifty five consecutive games in a row and remaining unbeaten away from home for two seasons out of three (all of which are feats that are highly unlikely to be repeated in the top tier of English football).

People also point to the players which Wenger inherited from George Graham to downgrade the man’s legacy – a stance which refuses to acknowledge that working effectively with the experienced and talented players you inherit is a skill in itself and probably one that if George Graham could have mastered the knack of, might have brought him even more success than he actually did enjoy. People forget that on the road to Anfield ’89 players like Kenny Sansom, Viv Anderson and Steve Williams were probably discarded too soon - the latter two before adequate replacements were found and the departure of the former probably thrusted the captaincy on Tony Adams too early (TA even hints here @04.00 that such pressures and dealing with his boss as a go-between with the players in some way aided the onset of his drink problems).

Also, Post-1991 obvious talent such as Anders Limpar and Michael Thomas were ousted in favour of average players in comparison, such as David Hillier, John Jensen and Steve Morrow (not to mention that back in the early nineties Paul Davis was banished to the reserves for a year for no apparent reason). It’s interesting that few of GG’s old guard that Wenger inherited have ever had a bad word to say about the latter, while George Graham’s extreme disciplinarian tendencies were often likened to despotic middle eastern tyrants, with the man acquiring nicknames such as ‘Gadaffi’, ‘The Ayatollah’ or ‘Saddam’ by his former players.

George also left Wenger with nothing in the way of a midfield by the mid-1990s. Some have attributed David Dein with much of the post-Graham talent which Arsenal acquired, though I highly doubt that Dein would have known of a young twenty year old French midfielder languishing AC Milan’s reserves called Patrick Vieira. And of course, the biggest hole in the theory that Wenger owed a debt to George was that by the peak of his achievements in 2004, only two of Graham’s old boys – Ray Parlour and Martin Keown - were left at Highbury and were by then pretty much on the fringes of things, rather than core members of the side.

So after building up what sounds like the case for Wenger’s defence, many of you will probably wonder why is it that I feel that the Wenger Out Brigade are in the ones in the right on this matter. Because as I’ve stated prior – there are clear and sound reasons for his exit. Even though an absolute decline hasn’t yet occurred, stagnation doesn’t equal progress either. Since moving to our new ground Arsenal have finished fourth on six occasions and third on four occasions. This season we have moved up to second, though again notably on the back of a winning run put together after the pressure of a title chase had evaporated.

Though Arsenal habitually qualify for the Champions League, they have been eliminated in the second phase for six straight seasons. Arsenal are most probably the biggest club in Europe never to have been crowned European Champions (a view which this site concurs with) and the fans should realistic expect a more convincing attempt at winning the Champions League if we're going to habitually qualify, otherwise we’ll simply become European Football’s equivalent of what Coventry City used to do in the old First Division – hang on to our place within the elite every season, but never really make any waves.

Wenger may well have returned to winning trophies in recent seasons with back to back FA Cups in 2014 and 2015, however again nearly choked in the Semi Final and Final in 2014 and last season were faced a with an Aston Villa side in freefall which made losing the final practically impossible once the first goal went in. With nine trophy-less seasons out of eleven, Arsene Wenger has undoubtedly shown consistency in failing to move Arsenal up to the next level over the last decade. The back to back Cup wins in 2014 and 2015 should have given this side confidence and knowledge of how to handle the pressure of one off big games (a vital ingredient for winning a title), but this season’s collapse shows that it clearly hasn’t.

Wenger therefore is undoubtedly a manager living off past glories – if you disagree with that, let’s imagine for a second that his reign started in 2006, instead of 1996. Would he have lasted long enough in the job to see Cup glory again in 2014 without facing the sack? Highly unlikely seeing that no other Arsenal manager has managed to last nine trophy-less seasons without losing their job. Let’s not re-write history here, George Graham’s side on the road to Anfield ’89 had excellent starts in the league in 1986/87 and 1987/88, but crumbled in the second half of the season in both. In 1988/89 they were providing a masterclass in how to blow a title. In 1989/90 people forget they had a run of failing to score for six games out of seven between January and March, which severely wounded their title defence and ultimately saw them finish below Spurs.

One thing you couldn’t accuse George Graham’s Arsenal of however was failing to learn from when they came up short, which is why they ultimately won six trophies in eight full seasons. Wenger’s last decade in contrast however seems to be dogged by repeating the same errors over and over, which indicates that this incumbent Arsenal board seem to be handing Arsene Wenger a licence to repeatedly fail. Undoubtedly, one element of this repeated failure is an area where Wenger most definitely seems to be a pigmy in comparison to George Graham – that of team tactics and motivation of the Arsenal side.

You could never imagine Wenger pulling off an Anfield ’89 style victory in the manner described here by Perry Groves, where George seemingly carried out his pre-arranged plan to defeat the greatest side of the era, overwhelmingly against the odds, to a tee. In contrast, even when Arsenal were consistently winning trophies under Wenger, you could never really say that the man ever had a tactical edge over other sides. Arsenal either played them off the park or they lost. And when you play with a side that doesn’t contain the like of Thierry Henry, Robert Pires, Dennis Bergkamp or Patrick Vieira, the occasions in which you play the opposition off the park are in comparison much less.

You get the feeling also that Wenger doesn’t psychologically prepare his side for the high pressure games in the same way as Graham did either. It’s interesting to note that from ‘The Invincibles’ documentary (@31.02) , in the week when Arsenal lost the FA Cup Semi Final against Manchester United, were eliminated in the Champions League Semi Final at home to Chelsea and found themselves 1-2 down at home to Liverpool on Good Friday, the rousing half time speech which turned the situation around came from Martin Keown and not Arsene Wenger. When Wenger arrived at Highbury, senior players noted that he was the only boss they’d ever encountered who never raised his voice and one wonders whether motivating his troops was something Wenger outsourced to the senior players within his squad.


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  1. Highbury Fields Forever

    May 24, 2016, 19:16 #89870

    Jeff Wright - the author referred to Wenger as Arsenal's most successful manager, not Arsenal's greatest manager. That's the difference between a fact and an opinion. You're entitled to your own opinion. You're not entitle to your own facts

  2. jeff wright

    May 24, 2016, 13:57 #89864

    Highbury Fields Forever ,my view is that Wenger's reign has been a game of two halves and you have to take account of that with Highbury highs amd Emirates lows .Based on overall factors I go for Chapman as being the greatest manager of AFC with Wenger's failures in Europe both in the Uefa Cup and European one leaving him behind both Mee and Graham in my view regarding success especially seeing that Wenger himself makes European football his main priority. Both Mee and Graham also had more work to do in their pursuit of success than what Wenger did when he first arrived from Japan to take over from Rioch .The basis of a title winning side was already in place both in defence with Seaman in goal and the famous back four thanks to Graham's efforts and there was Bergkamp who Rioch signed as well .I give Wenger credit for extending the careers of defenders such as TA and Bould with new methods and for keeping them together .As I said before though Wenger has tarnished his legacy by staying too long for the money and his hopeless pursuit of the holy grail of Europe.More embarrassment awaits him.

  3. McParlour

    May 24, 2016, 10:43 #89862

    A very readable piece! Good job, although I don't agree with everything you say I found it easy to listen and took it all on board. A lesson for all the frothing loonies on both sides of the debate.

  4. Highbury Fields Forever

    May 23, 2016, 23:24 #89856

    Jeff - there's no a flaw at all. Wenger became the most successful Arsenal manager once he won his third title in 2004, eight years after he came to Highbury. That's the same span as George Graham's reign. In that time he won one more title, one more FA Cup, two more doubles and an invincible season. Wenger hasn't won a European trophy, however the European Cup Winners Cup is a second tier European trophy and Wenger has only competed outside of the Champions League for two seasons out of twenty

  5. jeff wright

    May 23, 2016, 13:51 #89841

    The big flaw in the claims for Wenger being AFC's most successful manager lies in the time factor involved in his tenure of ( yawn) 20 years. Also the success factor changed during that time from being judged on trophies won to a top four finish being regarded as a success. Winning the FA Cup has not saved LVG at United missing out on the Champions League cash was the reason he is being fired. Wenger went 9 years during his 20 year stint at AFC without winning a trophy . So when taking account of this fact Wenger's record ,compared with other previous managers,two of whom won a European Trophy during their much shorter managerial tenures and did not have the top four trophy factor to play for , is not really as great as it is claimed to be. 20 years from now no one will be interested in how many top 4 finishes Wenger achieved and his reign at AFC will be looked on as having been a game of two halves .Success at Highbury in the first half followed by a not so successful second one at The Emirates stadium. It was claimed that the move to the new stadium would allow Wenger to be more successful than he was at Highbury. When this ,due in reality to Wenger's own ineptness , proved not to be the case then Wenger blamed the move from Highbury for this being the reason why the success had not been achieved. Last season he claimed prior to the game away to WHU when mathematically we were still in with a shout of making a title challenge that now things had changed for the better financially that he expected to challenge Leicester for the title. Unfortunately WHU had not read the script and Wenger was again exposed as le Emperor with no clothes on. Wenger than changed tack and blamed the supporters in the stadium at home games for the non title challenge to Leicester not having transpired ! You couldn't make it up. He beat Leicester twice but lost twice to Chelsea and only managed two draws against Tottenham. Then there was the opening game of the season at home the disastrous harbinger of gloom to come with a 2-0 defeat to WHU .How that could be the fault of the supporters though is something that only Wenger knows. I suggest that a manager who conducts himself in the way that Wenger has done with his arrogance and the personal problems in his private life is not worthy of being regarded has AFC's greatest manager and there is a case anyway for him not being the most successful one as well . That 9 years without winning anything can't be easily dismissed. I suspect that it will all end in tears anyway next term because there is no sign that Wenger will change his ways and we will just see more of the same sort of results and embarrassments that we have now come to accept as being the norm.Good old Arsene.

  6. Lord Islington

    May 23, 2016, 7:42 #89828

    Exeter - Arsenal could barely keep up with United financially back in the early noughties. They made a financial loss when they won the double in 2002. United were making a profit and winning titles during the same period. As for not competing at the top, we might not have as good as side, but we've finished in the same position this season as we did in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003 and 2005. That's also not taking into account that in the years since Chelsea and Man City have acquired sugar daddies which have inflated the price of players wages.

  7. Exeter Gunner

    May 23, 2016, 1:39 #89827

    Lord I, point out anywhere I have made up my own 'facts'. What is fact is AFC used to compete with Man U at Highbury. They don't compete at the top now. You don't know whether AFC would be more or less competitive now had they stayed at a Highbury developed to its limits. I'd rather they had stayed regardless. This forlorn wish of mine seems to upset you, but that doesn't invalidate it.

  8. Lord Islington

    May 23, 2016, 0:01 #89826

    Exeter - as the article states the trouble with social media. You're entitled to your own opinion. Not your own facts. Arsenal couldn't compete with Man Utd with a 38,000 capacity, let alone Barcelona, Real Madrid etc.

  9. Exeter Gunner

    May 22, 2016, 23:22 #89825

    Lord Isl, if you like the Emirates that's your prerogative, I don't have to agree with you, no matter how many people times you try and convince me. Highbury was a unique art deco ground. I don't like the Emirates name, I don't like the generic look of it, I think much of AFC's identity has been lost. It provides Wenger with a seemingly never-ending excuse for his failings. It attracted the dead hand of Kroenke. I don't agree it was a good thing and I don't think it was done for any other reason than to raise share value for a sale whilst loading the cost of the build onto the club itself.

  10. Lord Islington

    May 22, 2016, 20:56 #89824

    Exeter - yes thanks I've got plenty. You seem to downplay fitting a few more thousand people in (22,000 in fact), as if it's of no relevance. First up, we needed an increased capacity to compete with Man Utd in England, let alone the big guns in Europe. Also, tickets for Highbury between 1998 and 2006 were extremely hard to come by. There were many old Highbury regulars lost during this period, before we moved half a mile down the road. As for unique atmosphere, maybe 15-20 years before we left, but by 2006 that unique atmosphere was already gone (they didn't call it the Highbury library for nothing). Would we have liked to remain at Highbury? Yes but with a limited capacity that wasn't a feasible option. The building of the new stadium was the best deal all round. Better for the club with a bigger capacity. Better for fans because of the increased opportunity to get to see a home game. Better for history as the club remained on the same patch its been on for the last century. Better for Islington that kept Arsenal's corporation tax and better for the local tradesmen that kept their match day revenue. We haven't won many trophies since, that's Football for you. That may be the fault of Wenger. Having to move from Highbury however certainly wasn't

  11. Exeter Gunner

    May 22, 2016, 18:09 #89823

    Of course there isn't, Islington, and nor did I claim that. They could've chosen to develop Highbury within those limitations. To me and some others that unique old stadium had more value than its capacity it wasn't worth sacrificing so much heritage and identity just to fit a few more thousand people in. The club hasn't become more successful as a sporting enterprise either, in fact less so. The Emirates has helped change the culture of the club to one that values money making over sporting achievement. Got anything else?

  12. Lord Islington

    May 22, 2016, 15:22 #89820

    Exeter Gooner - extend Highbury to its maximum? What were they going to do, build it on stilts? There isn't the room around Highbury to get anywhere near the capacity of the new ground

  13. Exeter Gunner

    May 22, 2016, 14:35 #89819

    "But what convinced me [to change] was when we went to Wembley in the Champions League. It was a sell-out every time. "I realised then that this Club has a massive support and you cannot turn it down forever. No respected company can turn away 30,000 or 40,000 people every week without trying to do something. That was unfair and I felt we had a responsibility to extend the capacity of the stadium." Quotes from arsenal.com. Wenger claims the credit for the stadium move, Lord Islington. You can choose to believe it would have happened without him or not. Without him perhaps Highbury would simply have been extended to its maximum.

  14. Goonersol

    May 22, 2016, 14:12 #89817

    GoonerRon : debate is about 2 points of view, so I respect what you have to say, but overall Wenger set Arsenal up for greatness but ultimately could not deliver, he was unable to win back to back PL, he could not bash the big boys in the PL or Europe, he made Arsenal accept 2nd best and blame everyone else for his shortcomings. As I said, 1996 to 2006 he did well, but when he needed to push on he was found wanting. So overall his negatives outweigh his positives IMO. As Arsenal fans we missed a big chance to claim the PL this season because we know that the other to teams will get there act together next season, while we stay as we are, sailing along on mediocrity under Wenger.

  15. Lord Islington

    May 22, 2016, 10:54 #89816

    Exeter Gunner - why do you attribute the loss of Highbury to Wenger? Demand for attending football matches has ballooned in the last 25 years. Arsenal would have left Highbury whoever was the manager

  16. Exeter Gunner

    May 22, 2016, 2:36 #89814

    GoonerRon, ok staggering rather than stunning, let's face it, it has not been worth it. The loss of Highbury was too high a price to pay, especially for that lie we've been sold.

  17. GoonerRon

    May 21, 2016, 20:28 #89811

    @ Exeter - I didn't say it was 'stunning' did I? Goonersol said in balance Wenger hasn't been good for Arsenal which is what I disagreed with. Two doubles, an unbeaten league campaign, doubling our FA Cup winning tally and he hasn't been good for us? I literally can't catch my breath. I know the second part of his tenure has been much tougher but the 'low points' we have 'sunk' to in my view no way bring his overall tenure to a level where he's not been good for us. I think a sweep of even the most hardened AMG's would disagree with Goonersol's assessment.

  18. Exeter Gunner

    May 21, 2016, 18:01 #89810

    GoonerRon, there's a few of us think Wenger is not worth the early successes. Not worth the loss of Highbury, not worth kroenke, not worth the now AFC worldwide reputation as a soft touch, not worth the seemingly endless stasis. So yes, when you break it down, not so 'stunning'.

  19. jjetplane

    May 21, 2016, 14:43 #89805

    EG I see Amos scampered back over to Untold after trying his arm with you - nicely owned mate. Missed all the Chab stuff but like any good club WOB FC have got HICCuP .... Untold do have that brick bloke who loves old school borderline humour (where birds can't drive cars etc) and the funniest thing is both his fellow posters and himself are convinced it's comedy .... Terrifying .....

  20. goonersol

    May 21, 2016, 11:17 #89803

    GoonerRon : yes I do, what Arsenal have become under Wenger is not good, his Tenure had early victories, but for the last 10yrs he has dragged the club down and divided the fans, he has failed to make Arsenal Great, he has accepted mediocrity, he makes excuses, he has failed to deliver major honour's, I can go on , but most of his failings are well documented on here. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but can you really say that Wenger has been an overwhelming success ?? His failures now outweigh his successes, he never left us because he knew that he would be sacked at another top club, he accepted staying with us under the pretext of the bank etc, and allowed Arsenal to float around, making up the numbers in CL, no serious challenge in the PL for over 10yrs, while all along telling us " stick with me, we are building for the Future".....Well we have seen the future and No, Mr Wenger you have not delivered, your time is up, thank you for what you did 1996- 2006 but even Churchill could not live on past glories, times change, but sadly Wenger could not.

  21. GoonerRon

    May 20, 2016, 20:12 #89797

    @ goonersol - "but sadly on the whole, Wenger was not good for Arsenal." Do you really honestly believe that? Staggering.

  22. Exeter Gunner

    May 20, 2016, 18:07 #89793

    Speaking of X Files, jj, my last response has just mysteriously disappeared, though no more off topic than the previous exchanges. It does seem to be an entirely random process. The very funny Eric Chab gets removed every time, suggesting a sense of humour bypass.

  23. jjetplane

    May 20, 2016, 14:18 #89786

    EG Amos must be on about some of that weird x file **** over on U.....

  24. GTG

    May 20, 2016, 13:40 #89782

    Superbly written article fair play. One of the most balanced I've read on this whole subject. You have literally considered every aspect of both sides of the argument for me and then reached your conclusion as to why you think we should change manager. The problem is unfortunately its all irrelevant because nothing will change until Wenger or the board are ready.... the only thing I personally feel would have got him to leave was a full scale demonstration but the fans don't want it so we just have to sit back and wait but as I've stated before if he signs a new 3 year deal I will sit back and wait from the comfort of my home rather than the ground.

  25. mbg

    May 20, 2016, 13:17 #89780

    Mark, it will be the same old same old alright there's no doubt about it,you can bet on it, anyone thinking any different (and there's a lot) are delusional, no ambition no hope.

  26. Amos

    May 20, 2016, 12:21 #89777

    Any such articles reaching your newsfeed probably wouldn't register Exeter. But should you find yourself dealing with articles that don't support your prejudices you can always deal with them in the same bogus manner by shooting at the messenger. Juvenile maybe but if that's all you've got at least it allows you to believe your prejudices remain intact.

  27. Nick

    May 20, 2016, 12:13 #89776

    What is being an Arsenal supporter all about ? To me it's a passion that has been with me for 57 of my 62 years, it has saturated my life, I remember events bu who Arsenal played and the result on that day,at my marriage to my first wife in the Church at Lordship Lane, I had a small transistor radio in my inside suit pocket as the vicar was doing his thing prior to pronouncing me and my ex man and wife, I had to resist the urge to shout and punch the air as John Radford scored our second goal in a 2-0 win at Anfield,I had been surreptitiously listening to my radio throughout the ceremony, eliciting some disapproving looks from the reverend, Arsenals fortunes have meant everything to me down the years , I'm joyful when we win , equable if we draw, miserable when we lose, I don't care if we play attractive football so long as we win,I do however take solace when we fail to win if we have given our all and gone down fighting, I despair when we lose with a wimper, I support the Arsenal, not the manager, though sometimes the two are mutually exclusive, it was that way with Wenger at first as he brought back the good times and with a panache and swagger rarely seen in English football ever before, then it changed , parsimony, stubbornness, arrogance, contempt for us supporters, two Fa Cups while great in as much as at last we could crow again for a bit do not make up for the mind numbing sameness of our league campaigns and CL outings,the same mistakes made over and over again and far too many maulings and defeats when we have given nowhere near our all , the lack of nerve or bottle when it matters has been hard to take, so being an Arsenal supporter now means to me the same as it always has except I no longer support the managerial incumbent, the two nlw are NOT mutually exclusive, it is I believe as mistake to keep him on for the coming season a will be an even bigger mistake to offer him a contract extension, mo matter the outcome of next term he should go at the end of it , ideally with the title as a parting gift, but go he should all the same, those who are happy to suffer the continuous slings and arrows of outrageous fortune are I believe not as passionate about the club as those of us who have seen that the mans time is up and cannot bear the thought of yet more merriment at our expense from tv pundits and other fans as we endure yet another groundhog season!

  28. Exeter Gunner

    May 20, 2016, 11:04 #89774

    I'm afraid my newsfeed isn't popping up any such articles, Amos, and so I have forgotten such websites on which they may reside exist. Perhaps at some convenient juncture in a few months they will start to appear again and I'll remember. Of course, there is the danger that the responses I make will be so laughably transparent and easily exploded the resultant derision will mean I'll slink off again, pretending that I'm simply leaving regular contributors to their 'misery'.

  29. Amos

    May 20, 2016, 10:46 #89772

    There were positive conclusions in the piece too Exeter but any implication that such changes uniquely affect Arsenal is a product of your imagination - or maybe a lack of it. The last sentence of your post above 'implies' or 'suggests' (both great cop out words eh!)that you wouldn't enjoy such an article - though if you wanted to challenge yourself they are out there.

  30. Exeter Gunner

    May 20, 2016, 10:25 #89769

    Amos, I don't imagine it, I think it's quite clear that's your implication by suggesting the author's conclusion has 'failed'. And some may see your final sentence above as a cop out, but you are of course simply considering my enjoyment or otherwise of such an article.

  31. Amos

    May 20, 2016, 10:04 #89768

    Why would you imagine that such changes uniquely adversely affect Arsenal Exeter? Undoubtedly they affect and change the whole competitive landscape but comparing the 'success' of one period with the 'failures' of another can't be rationally considered without taking account of those changes and who benefits and who doesn't from such changes. But be honest with yourself, you don't really want to read such an article do you!

  32. Exeter Gunner

    May 20, 2016, 9:55 #89767

    Amos, perhaps you then could fill in the gaps by writing an article explaining how those changes in the wider football landscape uniquely adversely affected Arsenal. And go on to further explain why the 'post-Abramovich influx' has meant AFC are compelled to collapse before the daffodils come up whenever a title tilt looks possible.

  33. Mark from Aylesbury

    May 20, 2016, 7:42 #89766

    If the stories are true that Wilshere is being given an extension and that we will fight to keep Walcott. It says all we need to know. They'll be no change, same old way, same old recipe, same failure.

  34. CT Gooner

    May 20, 2016, 3:05 #89765

    @ Amos. Our wage bill is almost twice Dortmunds. Like others say, there's better managers out there. really worried OGL will not strengthen again, and we're forced to go through another season of under-achievement. 10 pets behind leceister is an underachievement with our extra resources.

  35. mbg

    May 20, 2016, 1:26 #89764

    Andy 1886, well said, you can be dammed sure those players learned from the Adams, Keowns, and Parlours and not from TOF as some would have you believe, you just have to look at at the last ten years for proof after OGL's feeble and pathetic efforts, and the results Keown got when he was doing his coaching badges with us in the run up to the CL final, and the brief spell bould had until TOF got jealous because he was getting all the praise, i'd have loved to have seen some of these excuses for defences we've had in the last ten years under OGL coached by Adams and Keown,(hell even the man himself George Graham) yes a lot of them were woeful third rate signings by OGL but i'd bet Adams Keown George, would have licked most of the others into shape and made a good defence out of them, (they certainly wouldn't be turning their arses and backs at free kicks like wengers are now) that is until TOF got jealous and took everything into his own hands again.

  36. Highbury Fields Forever

    May 20, 2016, 0:44 #89763

    Interesting that though this piece gives acres of criticism to Wenger, the critical comments are from those upset that he's counter balanced it with the fact that not everything has done has been all bad. Typical one-eyed outlook from many of the Wenger Outs, which the article rightly points out has made their cause look like a lynch mob and consequently lose sympathy among many observers

  37. Amos

    May 20, 2016, 0:30 #89762

    This piece, worthy as it is in many ways, makes the same mistake that many such reviews make. It assumes that the footballing landscape has remained virtually unaltered since GG became manager 3 decades ago. To review this period without considering the impact of the commercialistaion of the sport, the effect of the post-Abramovich influx, the change in player contract laws, squad restrictions and many other changes extenal and internal seriously limits the capacity to rationalise what has happened. Any conclusions are bound to fail when less than half the story is told.

  38. Jimmy Seville

    May 20, 2016, 0:30 #89761

    Big Andy - how do you work out Klopp did it with less resources when Dortmund have the highest average attendances in Europe?

  39. Big Andy

    May 20, 2016, 0:25 #89760

    Klopp did well with the players he inherited. In Germany he's won the title and got to the CL final. In the last decade Wenger has done sweet FA.

  40. Jimmy Seville

    May 20, 2016, 0:15 #89759

    Big Andy - yeah Klopp's done well. Finished eighth behind West Ham and not in Europe next year. Well Jel!

  41. Big Andy

    May 19, 2016, 23:27 #89758

    Rubbish article. The argument is a rather simple one: can we do better than Wenger? And the answer is: yes. When managers like Klopp, Simione and the Tinkerman can win titles with less resources then the argument is over. Real fans just want their team to be as successful as possible. We can do better than him.

  42. Simeone

    May 19, 2016, 22:52 #89757

    Someone....... Yeah let's get someone. He's world class. How about somebody, someone, somewhere, summertime, sum, simple Simon says. Sometimes, summer, so excited let's keep wenger.

  43. Time for change

    May 19, 2016, 20:39 #89756

    @mbg Unray, Someone, Koeman. Anyone who's a better motivator than Wenger!!!

  44. CORNISH GOONER

    May 19, 2016, 19:41 #89755

    You can write as many learned theses, books, articles etc. as you like which detracts from the fact that in essence football is a simple game. Winners are those who manage their resources well & who show AMBITION. Under the current ownership model the last quality is totally absent & checking Stanley's sporting record in the States it won't ever be on the table. In my view, a big name manager would be a chump to take on Arsenal but a rising "unknown" could work wonders in the short term before being shown the error of his ways. In the meantime, I would like to know where The University of Spin is located? It seems to me that the total, incoherent rubbish spouted by Wenger is from the same school as the Cameronian/ Jeremy Hunt stuff They all DO make it up!!

  45. Andy1886

    May 19, 2016, 18:16 #89754

    Fair article but I would take issue on a couple of points. Firstly, this is football, and nobody goes to a game hoping to see 'consistency'. Ultimately we go for the ups and the downs, who wouldn't rather finish top one year then fifth or eighth than finish third or fourth year in year out? Wenger has made football boring and predictable and that's a sin. Secondly you state that by the time of the Invincibles the old guard of GG had mostly gone, but that ignores the fact that most of that team had played and trained with them and that their will to win and defensive organisational abilities must have been passed on to their replacements to some degree. You can be certain that those attributes aren't ones we associate with AW, they came from the Adams, Keowns and Parlours and not least DB10. And there is a clue in one of your anecdotes: "the rousing half time speech which turned the situation around came from Martin Keown and not Arsene Wenger." which I think backs up my point.

  46. mbg

    May 19, 2016, 17:42 #89753

    Time for change, yet another name for the list when his followers ask but who do you get to replace him, yawn.

  47. Time for change

    May 19, 2016, 16:25 #89752

    Great piece @RobertExley but as you say Wenger hasn't won a European trophy. Sevilla's manager has just won three Europa Leagues in a row! Wenger out!

  48. David

    May 19, 2016, 14:23 #89749

    Interesting point about GG circa 1991. He could and should have build on that team, but after the Benfica defeat decided to change the way the team played by playing to the strengths of Ian Wright whom he just signed. From that point on Limpar, Campbell and Davis were history as the team became more pragmatic opting for the 1-0 victories that the Graham years are now notoriously remembered for.

  49. mbg

    May 19, 2016, 14:07 #89748

    TJ, good post, And Moyes won the Charity Shield in his first ten months don't forget (as bad as he was/is supposed to be) while OGL hadn't won anything in ten years.

  50. 1971 Gooner

    May 19, 2016, 13:57 #89747

    Very well written piece Robert. My biggest regret of the GG years is that he failed to further strengthen the team after winning the league in 1991. We could with the addition of two players established ourselves as the dominant force in English football. I think much the same after the Invincible season; what if we'd gone for someone like Gerrard for instance? BTW - if you've not looked at Ray Parlour's memoirs do so at the earliest opportunity - a cracking read. COYG!

  51. mbg

    May 19, 2016, 13:55 #89746

    Well that's one club tradition he hasn't managed to expunge, and do away with because of his jealousy of them, and in his quest to make the club into an image .of himself, if he hasn't already succeeded.

  52. Lord Islington

    May 19, 2016, 13:27 #89744

    Nick - 'One thing you couldn’t accuse George Graham’s Arsenal of however was failing to learn from when they came up short, which is why they ultimately won six trophies in eight full seasons' I take it that's the author not dwelling on the fact that under Graham we won Six trophys (sic) in Eight seasons.

  53. Sid Vicious

    May 19, 2016, 13:14 #89743

    JJetplane - I think we once met in the street about 39 years ago if I'm not mistaken?

  54. jjetplane

    May 19, 2016, 12:35 #89742

    Had to give up after the first 50 pages of this thesis on Modernity and why Wenger replaced Picasso in the hearts and minds of a generation of posh beatniks ..... We are talking footer and as much as I wish/don't want to branch out into McCluhanesque meditations on da scope of hip hop some people just want to say - Wenger - sling thy hook! The man is so boring as is his team. He has been useless in Europe and throws the towel before a game has been played. Enough of the AKBistics of how to spin another 3 years on top of next year just because a bunch of blokes who went to some poly together to study sociology and wrote articles about Punk Rock without a clue of it's constitution. Anyway - enough of me except to give you a line from the Clash when they were good for a short period ... a one two three go! 'if Adolf Hitler/flew in today/they'd send a limousine/anyyywayyyyy ....'

  55. Nick

    May 19, 2016, 12:19 #89741

    Robert totally ignores Bergkamps importance in Wengers early triumphs, as well as the 91 title where we lost only ONE league game all season and that due to injury and a flu outbreak, we were only just a gnats short of an invincible season then, it doesn't dwell on the fact that under Graham we won Six trophys in Eight season including a European triumph against the barca of their time Parma with an injury and suspension riddled team, Wenger has been here 21 YEARS! Ten years without a trophy at all and he had a barren spell between 98 ,and 2002, as well, we also bottled the title on 2003, and again in 2005, we were a tad unlucky to lose the CL final in 06, due to out ten men status and an offside equalizer but I still Pires was the wrong man to take off, and had he realized what we all knew that Almunia was a clown and bought a decent keeper as back up that too may have seem us get the elusive holy grail of Wengers tenure, I'm not saying he was not a great manager once, but its my view he wasn't the genius he's been made out to be either , he DID get lucky with GGs defence and with Riochs signing of Bergkamp it's also forgotten that in his first and only season Rioch steered us to 5th postion out highest league finish since 91, and got us to a league cup semi final,the team was not as bad as some make it out when Wenger took over , indeed Pat Rice had done a very good job untill Wenger finally arrived in September of that year, as for the last decade well apart from two lovely but fortuitous FA Cup wins ( fortuitous in the sense of luck in semi finals and calibre of final opponents) we have stagnated and even regressed in terms of league points totals and been awfully predictable in failing when it matters in the CL, this season his negligence in two transfer windows cost us our best chance of the title since 2005, when his sulking and allowing that mood to transfer to the team became a fixture in future Arsenal sides as we have seen every time a game matters in the title chase, it is not coincidence its the reflection.of his temperament in the players, were stuck with the bloke for the foreseeable future he should though have been sacked after 2006 in my view, and if not then in 2008, or especially after the hideous mauling at OT, no other top club would have countenanced keeping a manager after a result like that, if Barca lost 8-2 to Real Madrid I doubt the incumbents feet would touch the floor on his way out of the club! That's not glory hunting that is to do with STANDARDS and EXPECTATIONS as well as AMBITION !! Something all aspiring top clubs should have in spades !

  56. David

    May 19, 2016, 11:40 #89739

    Bit harsh to say Allison and Whittaker declined. Allison decided to not be manager anymore after WWII. Besides, Whittaker effectively was the manager as Allison was only notionally in charge. Allison, a journalist by trade, was the front man who dealt with the media whilst Whittaker coached the team and determined the tactics, as he had done in conjunction with Chapman. Whittaker could be seen more like Paisley to Chapman's Shankley. True, his last couple of seasons were nothing to write home about, but that was probably down to his poor health.

  57. Mike06

    May 19, 2016, 10:52 #89737

    At last a balanced article on the Wenger issue rather than the usual one-eyed drivel from the usual suspects. Many thanks Robert

  58. goonersol

    May 19, 2016, 10:51 #89736

    Most views have good and bad points, but when the dust has settled and Wenger has finally gone, the legacy will be that Arsenal was good for Wenger, but sadly on the whole , Wenger was not good for Arsenal. He has dragged Arsenal down, making them boring, predictable, beatable, negative, walk the ball into the net, injury prone , underachievers. yes , he gave us some happy/memorable moments, but we have now paid a terrible/heavy price for his early achievements. Somehow, 10 seasons of mediocrity sits well with Wenger , the Regime & the AKB's, the lack of drive & ambition is why we have theses debates. Looks like we have another season at least of Wenger, so the story continuezzzzzzz.

  59. David

    May 19, 2016, 10:36 #89735

    Mainly drivel, with a hint of rationality and oodles of condescension. It's not Wenger's fault that he is still the manager of Arsenal (and there is no animosity toward him personally), but the board (Kronke?) who are satisfied with grade B consistency. A grade B in maths is probably the most useless qualification going. If you want to do A Level maths or sciences, you need at least a grade A; but to get onto an Arts based A Level program, you only need a grade C. Arsenal, under Wenger,are the grade B maths student. It's not a bad grade in itself, but of no practical use. Wenger must go.

  60. TJ

    May 19, 2016, 10:06 #89734

    A good read Robert, though most of this has been said already. I'd just make a few points 1. You make a good point about managers ending their careers with whimpers rather than bangs... The problem is that Wenger is an egotistic dictator; he won't get as much as control at another club and he can't bare the thought of someone else getting the credit. The truth is that a good coach coming in could get SO much more out of the players. Tangible proof of this was the revolutionary change in style for the better thanks to Steve Bould at the start of his appointment. Wenger changed up all Bould's new tactics even though we were winning, because he hated how showed up he had been. 2. The problems like the fitness record of players, not motivating teams, refusing to consider the opposition, filling the team with choir boys etc. are all traits Wenger will not shake. You talk about his past successes, but can you seriously argue that he has ever endured major success without world class players who are able to overcome his inane coaching methods? 3. The David Moyes comparison is ridiculous. The team he inherited was atrociously weak, that was the real issue. Yes they won the league the year before, but the EPL was (and still is) atrociously weak, the standard of football they played was terrible! (I think Souness on Sky described them as the worst champions ever!) Just look at the turnover of players under LvG to see how much overhauling that Moyes team needed. 4. Divine right to success? The gods help those who help themselves. The whole point of the stadium was to cement our status as one of Europe's ELITE, to accept less is not in the best interests of the club.

  61. Exeter Gunner

    May 19, 2016, 9:59 #89733

    Very well and knowledgably written (though I don't think 'pipped' is the right word for finishing behind Leicester by 10 points). Obviously his succession won't be a simple job in that he wears so many hats and has so much power, and the club will need to modernise its footballing structure when he goes so that the football coach is just that, without interference in the money side of things. But this does need to and will happen at some point. For me it comes down to the repetitive nature of his reign. The predictable and perennial failings and collapses aren't compensated by being the richest also rans in the world. This season has made it abundantly clear that this is what you get with Wenger, it's nothing to do with who else is challenging. The question for each supporter is, do you think it's worth this stasis purely for the 'stability' of his continued reign, or do you want to take a chance on something else? The irony is, 'stability' itself is a risk, as many clubs may improve next season, whilst we as good as know Arsenal won't under Wenger.