We Don’t Need to Talk About Wenger

The merits of expending emotional energy protesting about the manager



We Don’t Need to Talk About Wenger

Expect that new contract announcement before the FA Cup semi


In an unprecedented development before the Sutton game, I actually found myself agreeing with Alan Shearer - when he expressed surprise at the amount of media commentary there had been about our manager’s future following the debacle in Munich. As the Geordie elbow-delivery-system pointed out, our current situation is no different now than it has been for years. We are scrapping for a top 4 finish, have little prospect of winning the league and will fail to progress past the first knockout round of the Champions League.

Some have suggested this year is different because of the manner of defeat in Germany or because the tie is over as a contest before the second leg. Not so. We were beaten by exactly the same score in Munich last season and were equally outclassed by Barca in the last 16, when we lost the first leg at home by two goals for the fourth year in a row. The year before that run started, we were humped 4-0 away by Milan in the first leg. That means, a couple of spirited but ultimately futile comebacks notwithstanding, that we have not gone into the second leg of a last 16 tie with any reasonable hope of progressing since 2011 (with the benefit of hindsight, I am not sure how reasonable our hope was even after beating Barca 2-1 at home, but I did think we had a chance at the time).

Others have suggested the change is because the Munich result followed so closely after a domestic collapse in form. There is perhaps a little more truth in this, but not much. Our domestic form in the build up to all of the above losses was not great and it was arguably worse last season, when in the three league games before Barca we took only one point and lost at home to Swansea, one of our worst ever performances at the Emirates.

Some journalists seem to think that the fans have only turned on the manager this year. Again, not so, although perhaps we are a little less divided than before. I recall the reaction to my first two articles in ‘The Gooner’. The first was shortly after the sale of Vieira, when I sounded a note of concern about the direction the board was taking the club. The second was shortly after the sale of Henry, for which I blamed the manager. Many agreed even then, but I was also roundly slated (perhaps fairly, but I must mention someone called “Southampton Gooner”, whose “star letter” in the next edition published after one article – I forget which – basically called me a whinging idiot and prophesied more league titles in the near future, now of course the distant past).

However, social media aside, I cannot remember the last time I heard a serious long term Arsenal fan advocating for the status quo. When Shearer followed up his rare moment of insight by suggesting that us fans are split 50/50 on the Wenger issue, I can only assume that either he was just trying to reassure the viewing public that he was still full of bollocks after all or that half the Arsenal fans he comes into contact with are a combination of ex-players that owe Wenger their careers and the prawn sandwich brigade, who have no sense of our history.

So, if nothing has changed with the manager or the club, why the increased discussion about their futures? Well, I actually don’t think there has been that much more speculation this year than there was in the final year of Wenger’s last contract – at which time he had not won a trophy for approaching a decade. There was a lot of coverage of the “Wenger Out” sign held up at Chelsea, but only because Neville overstepped a line in calling the instigator an idiot on live television. Let’s not forget that, at home to Norwich last season, there was an organised protest with hundreds of banners of a similar sentiment, if a less personal phrasing.

If the tenor of the debate has deteriorated, which it probably has, that is in large part because the mainstream press has only just caught up to what the closest Arsenal watchers (i.e. the fans) have known for a long time. The club is stagnating under its current leadership and will continue to do so until there is a change at the top. While the press remain mostly respectful in tone, the fact that they are voicing negative opinions at all gives a greater licence for others to ratchet up the vitriol.

There is also, of course, the growing desperation which comes from so many years of raging against the Wenger machine without making any impact. Anyone who feels impotent to effect change in something they care deeply about is going to be frustrated and angry. Fans often loudly protest that this is “our club”, but that is not entirely true. Yes, Arsenal is my club, like London is my city and even like my family is my family. However, that doesn’t mean that I get to ride a jet ski down the Thames or tell my brother what to have for breakfast. It is a fantasy that major football clubs were ever run by or for “the fans”. It just seemed that way because the individuals who actually did run the clubs, before the big foreign money came in, also happened to be fans themselves.

So, we come to my point, insofar as I have one. I could write many pages on how Wenger has had more bad years than good or about his failure to address long term technical and psychological deficiencies in our squad, but many others have already done that. What I want to do is appeal for some calm, before the atmosphere around the club becomes so poisonous that it takes a generation to fully repair.

Despite every spittle inflected rant at the nearest camera phone, every all caps tweet or every banner promoting the virtues of a quiet retirement on the French Riviera, nothing is going to change in the short, or perhaps even medium, term.

First of all, it is simply fanciful to expect Wenger to step down. Not because of the money, although that can’t hurt, but because of his arrogance. Don’t get me wrong, this is not necessarily a criticism. To be a great manager, as he once was, you need to be at least a little arrogant – think Ferguson, Clough and Mourinho. Of course Wenger wants the club to achieve major success again and to suggest otherwise is absurd. The problem is that he still believes he is the best man to achieve it and is too close to the situation to see that a change is needed. That is why it should not be his job, it should be down to the board.

Anyone who actually thinks that our board cares remotely enough to change anything should seek professional help. To paraphrase Albert Einstein, the definition of insanity is watching the same thing happen over and over again and expecting a different outcome. Kroenke owns six sports teams and they have won only two titles in a combined 73 seasons under his stewardship. The last 11 years ago in lacrosse. Plainly his only concern is the bottom line and, given the Premier League TV deal, Arsenal will still make a healthy profit even if we drop out of the top four.

Indeed, so unengaged is Kroenke with the running of the club that he allowed Wenger to effectively appoint his own boss. In Gazidis, a man with no personal affinity to Arsenal or prior experience running a football club, he chose someone who would never challenge his absolute authority in the way that even his great ally, David Dein, would surely have done by now. I am sure Wenger thought it best not to appoint someone who would interfere with the project he still thinks will succeed, but it left a power vacuum at the top and nobody willing or able to take action now that it has so clearly failed.

Wenger will be our manager next season and beyond. He basically confirmed as much when saying he will stay in management. Whatever the few remaining AKBs might think, no major club is going to offer him a job at his age and after so many years without winning the title, much less the Champions League. The board will offer him a new contract, or rather keep the one they have already offered him on the table. He will sign it, probably in the build up to an FA Cup Semi-Final (assuming Lincoln do not pull off the greatest FA Cup upset of all time).

With all this in mind, why expend any emotional energy protesting or venting anymore? Why fall out with each other about something none of us control? I absolutely acknowledge that every fan has a right to voice his or her opinion, it is just that the tone of it all is so depressing of late. That was best demonstrated by the outrage recently expressed at the very notion that someone could both think that we need a new manager (as I do) and also find the idea of a banner celebrating Atom and Humber to be funny enough to chip in a fiver towards printing costs (as I did).

The world has, in so many more important ways, gone a long way to utter sh*t in recent years. If you want to protest something, you have plenty of choice, regardless of your social or political leaning. Football is meant to be a source of enjoyment and escapism. Arsenal was around and winning titles long before Wenger. One day he will leave and sometime after that we will win another title. How long that gap will be remains to be seen, as does how tarnished Wenger is prepared to allow his legacy to become before he finally calls it a day. I just hope it is not so long that we can barely remember the success he bought to the club in his early years.

For me, for now, I am just going to relax a little, enjoy the games we win, laugh at Spurs whenever the opportunity arises (including, hopefully, on St Totteringham’s Day after their form implodes at the business end of the season again) and try avoid twitter as much as possible. Others will continue to voice their dissent, which is fine. Some will even stop going to games, which is also fine. Personally, I have loved going to the Arsenal since I was a very little kid. I don’t plan to deprive myself of that pleasure and don’t see why the experience need be all about anger and discord. Given that we have no reasonable expectation of change, I may as well just get on with it. Next up, Liverpool away and Bayern Munich again. Should be fun.


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68
comments

  1. PaulMersonlalala

    Feb 27, 2017, 20:29 #98775

    mbg - agreed, in fighting isn't a fair assessment. And I think the writing is on the wall, no doubt. I see tonight that Ljungberg is off from the Academy too. That to me echoes a lot of what's been said here in that there are no former players involved of the kind we need (Bould apart and he's been hobbled somehow). The prevailing coaching methods in elite sport are all about knowledge sharing, looking at other sports, systems and elite development. But neither Adams, Keown, Viera, Ljungberg or Henry have felt welcome. Of all the recent shambles we've witnessed, it has to be AW's abject tactical failures. When was the last time we saw him read a situation right and make key changes or explain to the media what he was trying to do against Bayern, Watford when things weren't going right etc etc? I don't think reporters ask the right questions. Call him out. The players don't have a leader out there that's for sure. Right I'm going for a lie down, but fair play to everyone on here who sees through it all. It's a nonsense it really is.

  2. mbg

    Feb 25, 2017, 21:47 #98712

    PaulMersonlalala, fair enough, but you Forgot to mention why it's the same old comments, voices views, and infighting as the last few seasons (and by the way few ? more like eight)it's because of a past it out of date old fraud of a manager in case you've forgot. The infighting ? as you call it, certainly not a description i'd use because the vast majority on here get on well, think, believe, want and agree on almost everything related to Arsenal and said fraud of a manager at this present time, if there's any in fighting it's because of two maybe three at a push (all the others have gone into hibernation or indeed have woken up) AKB wengerites who have the manager of the club at heart more than the club itself, but such is their messiah's standing now they're very easy dealt with and no fighting needed. we want wenger out.

  3. PaulMersonlalala

    Feb 25, 2017, 15:56 #98706

    There you all go again, same old voices, same old comments and in fighting. This site could re-post any comment streams from the last few seasons and you wouldn't be able to tell it wasn't related to this year's events. You're all mad. I keep an eye on Arsenals scores and I always feel a twinge when they lose. However. I gave up thinking that things will ever be the same at this once great club a long long time ago. I gave up my Highbury season ticket, knowing I'd seen what I wanted to see and not encouraged about the future. The biggest disappointment for me is not feeling passionate enough to take my son to games when it was such a big part of my life for so long. I travel a bit with work and now go to Rochdale, Margate, Hayes, whatever....just to get the smoke blown in my face, squint through the rain and mist under inadequate floodlights and hear people talking about football rather than about work in their mobiles or missing the first and last ten of each half. I envy those of you who still have the passion for change, but for me, I'll take the last few seasons at Highbury, Tony Adams rather than Kosceiling, Marc Overmars over Theo Walcott, Ray Parlour all day long over anyone of these lightweights. Money has killed it. RIP.

  4. GoonerRon

    Feb 24, 2017, 19:54 #98683

    @ mbg - firstly let me say I am no way suggesting Wenger should be praised for our distance relegation. But you're saying something that hasn't happened to our club in over 100 years, that Wenger has never been less than 16 league positions and an average of 38 points per season away from, warrants "valid speculation" and is a "very valid scenario"? Where's that hand over eyes emoji when you need it....

  5. mbg

    Feb 24, 2017, 19:17 #98682

    No GoonerRon there you go again, letting your wengerite mist come down immediately without thinking, I've already advised you on this, to reread (maybe you should take the advice of another wengerite now retired to waltons mountain to grow mushrooms) have a cup of tea then reread again, obviously just like your messiah you listen or take advice from no one, of course it's speculation, a what if scenario(obviously having flown right over the cuckoos nest, sorry your head) but valid speculation all the same and a very valid scenario because that's exactly how wengerites would react and what would happen. wenger out now.

  6. GoonerRon

    Feb 24, 2017, 17:41 #98680

    @ mbg - there you go again. That must be the longest post ever on here that is almost entirely dedicated to speculating how certain people would react to fictional scenarios you dream up. You can level many things at Wenger but taking us anywhere near relegation (or the bottom half or even 6th place) is bile tinged mud only you could fling.

  7. mbg

    Feb 24, 2017, 16:57 #98678

    FPGooner, jw, these AKB's just love to see teams sticking with managers (for obvious reasons)even though when the time comes and it's right to show ambition and get rid, I've no doubt it would be the same with their messiah if we were in the same position as Leicester, (come to think of it there's not all that much difference anyway, we're scratching around in fourth fifth place going nowhere every season for the last eleven years with and showing no ambition to do anything else, and usually just scraping fourth thanks to others to qualify for a comp we're never ever going to win under wenger, and remember Leicester and Ranieri have done what TOF couldn't do and never will)they still wouldn't want rid still wouldn't want him sacked, closer and closer to relegation they'd still want to stick with him, two games from the drop they'd still have faith, then the inevitable what the rest of us could all see, (what Leicester who have ambition can see) Relegation, and you know something ? and I have no f*****g doubt about this whatsoever they'd still want him retained citing he's deserves a chance to get us back up, he's the best man for the job etc, how the AKB's love their messiah, the sentiment, and then if he did we all know what the cry would be. Anyway i'd have thought these wengerites would have loved to see Ranieri sacked and humiliated after the way he made their messiah look bad and showed him up just like they did with Maureen and others. We want wenger out.

  8. foxinthebox2001

    Feb 24, 2017, 14:52 #98665

    i dont think its quite cut and dried as that. Wenger has the prospect of 3 more post match traumas, and 3 minute press meeting melt downs before he gets any calm clear water. If we get clumped by Liverpool away Munich home, and City at home, regardless of the WBA result he will be in the dock again in front of the press. The difference this time around is the press boys (John Cross & Olly Holt excepted) are on the guys case. This is Wengers Achilles heal, the opportunity to fire questions at him he cant dodge. Okay, 3 days after the Munich slaughter he had composed himself, and spent hours with his PR people to concoct an arrogant come back. He knew he was in a bad place after scurrying out of the 3 minute presser in Munich, like a rat down a sewer. That arrogance wont carry him through 3 more damaging defeats and the fallout that will bring, before we get to any potential semi final.

  9. jeff wright

    Feb 24, 2017, 14:46 #98664

    Ranieri, the 'tinker man' inherited Stuart Person's team that had contrived to battle their way out of relegation the season previous .The team was made up of experienced journey men who had been around the block and back a few times in their careers.They employed the same approach that had worked the previous season to avoid relegation win an unlikely league title with .It must be said that some fortuitous circumstances helped with perennial flops Tottenham and perennial only top 4 trophy Wengo able to offer any sort of threat.Even then Wengo finished 10 points adrift in second spot and had he any class he would have walked.However he doesn't have any so he stayed. It was obvious that Leicester would have a struggle this season to replicate last seasons heroics but should have done better in the Prem than they have.The tinker man though got it all wrong with some bad signings and an inability to be able to work out how to get better league results from the same journey men minus it must be said the excellent Kante who Wengo says he nearly signed,hey come on now don't laugh it's not fair taking the piss out of the inflicted. The players who had performed heroics last term struggled this time around . Morgan and Huth should have been dropped earlier and new players trained to fit in to the workman like tactics that Person had introduced and which Ranieri had benefited from employing instead of his own airy fairy tinker about every game usual ones... The Italian's loyalty to the players who had won him his first league title cost him his job. I can see where mbg is coming from on his point because Wenger has been a specialist in failure for donkeys years and has never been fired when he clearly should have been. Of course a touch of the panics is involved with the Foxes owners sacking Ran whereas Wenger's failures have been claimed a success .Well money wise they have been. Everyone knows though that the clown would have been fired again like he was at Monaco if at a top club with real ambition. So mbg is right even if his choice of words is debatable. It's always the bigger picture that counts in football if you get the big things right you can afford to get the details wrong . C est la vie !

  10. GoonerRon

    Feb 24, 2017, 13:18 #98661

    @ mbg - of course they should have stuck with him. He delivered the biggest, most unimaginable high for them last season and this season is probably about par for where Leicester have traditionally been. Their stated aim was to stay up and they haven't been in the relegation zone all year. Of course they're on a bad run and all the teams near the bottom have had one. They unequivocally backed him a fortnight ago which either highlights they were disingenuous then or have knee-jerked now. @ FPGooner - I've got no issue with Leicester's stated ambition, but mbg highlighting this sacking as showing ambition is nonsense in my view.

  11. FPGooner

    Feb 24, 2017, 12:04 #98659

    GoonerRon #104478, Bit rich of a Wenger disciple to poke fun at Leicester for lack of ambition. AFC, despite being the only club in the top divisions in any of the footballing countries in Europe not to buy an outfield player the summer of 2015, despite announcing to the world that coming 4th was a ‘trophy’, despite accumulating a collection of tonkings from all of our rivals nationally and internationally, how the fook does any Wengo sycophant have the gall to use the word ‘ambition’. At least Gazidis, Kroenke and even our hapless, clueless dinosaur of a manager are handsomely rewarded for their daylight robbery, what exactly is in it for the AKB sycophants? what is your reward for shoring up worthless Wengo? A report in the press stated that Leicester were premature in their sacking of Ranieri, the season after they had won the league. The writer then said that Chelsea sacked Maureen after he had won the league for them. Thats ok, said the article, for the big teams, but not for the foxes. What exactly have WE become? we are clearly not one of the ‘big teams’ and we do not even have the ambition of the relegation contenders. We employ tactics from the Jurassic age, accumulate a team of lightweight prima donnas, sign total rejects (Senderos, Sqillachi, Silvestre, Santos, Sanogo thats just the Ss), we have a manager (despite what the imbecile Keown says about Barcelona possibly being interested in him) who shouldn’t be trusted with a team on FIFA 2016.

  12. mbg

    Feb 24, 2017, 9:56 #98656

    GoonerRon, stick with him ? we can see why you'd want that, that would have been right up your street alright, we all know what sticking with someone does. Yes that was ambition and what's more they came out and were/are truthful about it, he wouldn't be saying the same if he had the same resources as Arsenal and your messiah, i'd bet his ambition would have been a lot higher then, and he'd have been a lot more truthful about that too, but there again he has already fulfilled his ambition by beating your messiah to the Premier League on the cheap, and i'd imagine with the same resources as TOF Raneri would still be in a job. wenger out

  13. TonyEvans

    Feb 24, 2017, 8:35 #98655

    Hi Bard - It's going to be touch and go until the end of the season - there is certainly scope for some awful results with the way we are playing. The Lincoln cup match could be pivotal though, and could really turn the crowd against Wenger should we play badly and lose. None of this sits well with me though because I never really want Arsenal to lose deep down, but I don't know what else is going to shift the sod.

  14. Hi Berry

    Feb 24, 2017, 8:32 #98654

    Leek fc...sorry mate but you really are barking up the wrong tree with your take on Leicester. Football really is about the glory of winning...the glory of Charlie's winning goal at Wembley and Kennedy's header at WHL in '71 completely overshadows some of the league position finishes that followed - as did Sunderland's winner in '79 and Michael Thomas' goal at Anfield in '89. It's all about the winning and the incredible feeling it gives fans at that moment. Leicester did the seemingly impossible last year and I doubt if any of their fans would trade that one 'greatest moment of their lives' for anything, regardless of where they are in five year's time.Their owners' ambition for this season was a realistic one - I don't think anyone thought Leicester could have come close to doing it again - the only shame was that even with all the stars aligned perfectly in his favour, Wenger couldn't pull it off. Would you have traded any of those moments above if the alternative was 'twenty years of finishing second'?

  15. Siddy

    Feb 24, 2017, 1:12 #98653

    I think it comes down to this: If the board think that Wenger will still make serious money for him then he will stay. If they decide that he won't then he will go. Everything else is bull poo. It's a sad state of affairs. But maybe they will decide that a new boss would help the club's finances, we can only hope. Man United is a financially-driven club and, although they won't win the title this season, they are big spenders because they make the link between on field and financial success. If Arsenal being constant also rans is cutting into profits then it could spell the end for AWFC. W***er out.

  16. GoonerRon

    Feb 23, 2017, 23:05 #98652

    @ mbg - it would have been far more ballsy for the Leicester owners to stick with Ranieri. Oh, and the Leicester owner said tonight: "Survival in the Premier League was our first and only target at the start of the campaign." #ambition

  17. mbg

    Feb 23, 2017, 22:37 #98651

    Leicester now there's a teams owner/board with ambition and balls, if only this yank that we have would show some and grow a pair, they don't have to be a big pair just big enough to do the job. we want wenger out.

  18. Paulward

    Feb 23, 2017, 22:15 #98650

    Leek: I've already sold my Bayern ticket , my Dad and my best Arsenal mate have too. Says something I'm afraid when lifelong loyal supporters can't be bothered turning up. Having said that I'm still laughing at Tottenham tonight, knocked out by Genk ( giants of European football).

  19. GoonerRon

    Feb 23, 2017, 22:06 #98649

    Horses for courses, especially since supporters are at different points in the 'Wenger spectrum'. I understand why people are pissed off and obviously it is their right to do what they see fit. I personally can never want Arsenal to lose and have too much respect for Wenger to hold banners at games or protest for his removal. I do want change and hope it happens at the end of the season in a dignified way. I'm the meantime, I'm pleased I still feel excitement pre-match tension, joy, despair, annoyance when I watch Arsenal play.

  20. Leek fc

    Feb 23, 2017, 22:03 #98648

    A few hundred to march from Highbury if you are lucky before the Bayern game. Most on the forum are ducking out early because it's midweek or after their bedtime. Fickle or what.

  21. Paulward

    Feb 23, 2017, 21:55 #98647

    Tottenham eliminated by Genk , 3rd best team in Belgium! There's always someone worse off than you as they say!

  22. Arseneknewbest

    Feb 23, 2017, 21:16 #98646

    Leeko - There's so much bollochry in your latest excretion it's impossible to know where to start. Having nailed your testicles so firmly to the mast of HMS Arsene, you are surely destined for Davy Jones's locker, along with his football credentials. Re-read it and apply some common sense - you can't delete the post but please think about apologising to everyone who wasted 30 seconds of their life reading it. You have no clue what you're talking about have you?

  23. GSPM

    Feb 23, 2017, 21:09 #98645

    Leeky : don't agree this Arsenal would win Europa league , also chile wants their number 1 player to be a winner and even the people of chile can see Wenger and this Arsenal will not be winning PL or CL anytime soon. Ranieri takes 5000/1 outsider to PL title then gets sacked, Arsenal are no bigger than 10/1 but have not got close for 12yrs but Wenger is loved . Strange world .

  24. Leek fc

    Feb 23, 2017, 21:08 #98644

    Hate to say I told you so but my post at 10.44 today says everything. Bye bye Ranieri. Just goes to show what mr Wenger has achieved. Getting rid of Wenger will be the start of our problems. Not the end.

  25. Petergooner

    Feb 23, 2017, 21:06 #98643

    Yes really bad news about Ranieri but so much good news from Wembley. Kane own goal and D Ali being sent off makes you feel good to be alive.

  26. Paulward

    Feb 23, 2017, 20:55 #98642

    Raneiri sacked a year after winning the league for Leicester City, Wenger offered a new deal 14 years after winning the league for Arsenal . Compare and contrast .

  27. Leek fc

    Feb 23, 2017, 20:34 #98641

    Bonzo. Thank **** Arsenal are not like Man Utd. Fergie left and the Mancs had it all. 3 managers later they are in decline. Man Utd have a worldwide commercial market that any other club would love. Revenue is £165 mil more than ours. Would you be happy to see Pogba signed for £100 mil and put up with the **** he serves. Wenger would have been crucified. If we end up in the Europa league as the mancs have, we would win it year in year out. Our stadium move which was all paid for through revenue is something to be proud of. Other clubs???? When Wenger decides to leave, he has left us in a much more commanding position than when he took over. I will bet my life that march 1st as opposed to march 7th demos, Chile will blow you lot away.

  28. mbg

    Feb 23, 2017, 20:30 #98640

    CORNISH, my sentiments exactly, I will never give up, never ever until this old past it fraud of a manager is sacked, or f***s off of his own accord, whatever, and I urge all other right thinking fans not to either (it's just what wenger, his regime, and wengerites want and would love to see) even if he was to be given another year or two keep it up, get more determined, get even more louder, post more frequently, etc, that's exactly what I intend to do, so anyone who thinks him signing on again is somehow going to shut fans up and kind of unite them for the sake of the club for a year or two or longer is very badly mistaken indeed, no the fight will go on only louder and more intense with the battle cry, we want wenger out.

  29. KC38

    Feb 23, 2017, 20:03 #98639

    @Bard, your totally right mate, things are different, more money spent no sign of improvement, more fans on his back, difficult away games that I believe will see us drop out the top four. Wenger does not handle direct criticism, that is why anti Wenger protests in the ground would help remove him, he simply could not deal with it. That's why it's so frustrating to read so much anti Wenger stuff on here that won't make any difference, if some of these people actually went to games stood up and sang it's time to go they might actually achieve something. As it is we have posts from people that hate the board hate the manager hate the so called plastic fans (how they know that if they don't go is beyond me) hate the ground but spend so much of their time posting! As one poster puts it "you couldn't make it up". My hope is Allegri, I am anti Kronke but he has given Wenger money, with this squad and some smart additions we will be very close to competing, Allegri would set the team up correctly and provide a base to play from.

  30. CORNISH GOONER

    Feb 23, 2017, 19:49 #98638

    Gary, I am pretty sure that I am one of the oldest posters on here. As such I have to say your article is totally depressing. NEVER, NEVER GIVE UP!! Yes, we are facing a bit of a **** storm both nationally & with AFC but you have to fight, do something when you feel things are wrong. I am in my 70's & have joined 2 political parties, attended meetings etc. over the last few years. That's why I express my views on here about Webster, sorry Wengo. At this distance from the action these days I can only be a keyboard warrior I'm afraid. Nearer & I would be on that Bayern protest which I wish every success. Rouse yourself fella - regain that passion & remember the old Bill Shakily quote about life & football!

  31. Paulward

    Feb 23, 2017, 19:36 #98637

    Gary : Think this years different because his contract expires, and there's no real indication that he'll sign a new one . It's more or less out there now that his future is dependent on results and fan reaction , which of course depend on one another. If we miss out on top four he'll go, and if we get any more 4 or 5 goal hammerings I also think he'll go. He may go regardless of results if he believes most fans want him to. For me it is most likely that he will go, which would be best for everybody.

  32. mbg

    Feb 23, 2017, 19:24 #98636

    MAF, well said, he stopped the boozing and steaks (although it didn't do the 71, 89, teams and others any harm) and introduced some exercises (it was widely known as yoga and had been around for hundreds of years, long before wenger came along and stole and accepted the acclaim for it) it didn't exactly take brains or expertise to do that or know it needed doing, any manager worth his salt could and would have. we want wenger out.

  33. Cyril

    Feb 23, 2017, 19:21 #98635

    Let them eat cake!

  34. mbg

    Feb 23, 2017, 18:39 #98634

    jw, spot on, when Roman took over the chavs how many times did we hear you can't buy class, you can't buy history chanted and shouted at them, well Chelsea have more class now than we have, certainly on the pitch and in the dugout anyway, and a hell of a lot more fooking History having won the CL and being the first team in London to do it too, I bet that nearly killed wenger I bet it pissed him off big time, at least I hope to fook it did. we want wenger out.

  35. MAF

    Feb 23, 2017, 18:23 #98633

    dont think wenger is any way ahead of GG George Graham. GG was a real Turnaround Job. Whinger benefitted from the Dressing room + DNA that GG had created. Whinger's first arrivals (Viera, Petit), soon got to know from Wright Parlour Adams Parlour Winterburn, what BOTTLE was and they took to it. NONE of this came from Whinger, None of it. He just came with a few health tips and got our STREETBRAWLERS thinking a bit more

  36. markymark

    Feb 23, 2017, 18:18 #98632

    Congratulation Leek the beginnings of some sort of argument but let's look at this in a bit more detail. Firstly Arsenal are not like Man UTD there is no recent history of glory and achievement indeed recent history stands just at a slightly better return than from 78-80. The stability of top 4 appears very important to the Board for their financial return but at a price of a huge wedge in the fanbase, many of whom want glory above financial power. Wenger has chosen to align himself with the dull establishment capitalists and so is aiding his own downfall. Those who argue that Wenger is some sort of financial visionary including absurd claims that he secretly was the master of the Emirates move, conveniently remove Keith Edelman out of the picture. I would suggest even the most dim witted fool could have made money from the move. If Arsenal had somehow got relegated twice over, the old Highbury ground would still be worth more than Old Trafford. Only Stamford Bridge could be claimed as having more intrinsic value. Islington Council no doubt sold off little two bedders in Barnsbury for around 25k in the early 80's. They are now hitting £1m. Highbury at 7 acres ramped up and up in value. Just add the SKY money and you couldn't lose. Arsenal without Wenger will probably do very well. Wenger is just a miserable side show that will soon end and thank goodness for that.

  37. mbg

    Feb 23, 2017, 18:14 #98631

    The only topic of conversation can be wenger, about wenger, his failings, his lies his spin, when he's going and how to get rid of him, it's the most important topic at the moment nothing else matters, and anyone who thinks any different and is quite happy to let thing go and carry on as we are is not a true Arsenal fan, but a wenger fan. wenger out.

  38. jjetplane

    Feb 23, 2017, 18:06 #98630

    And let's remember that the Wenger regime has priced Islington's working class youngsters out of the club so **** knows who will be supporting it in years to come other than the nice middle class blokes like the writer of this article who thinks it's fun to win nothing and pay the earth for it. Out of touch and in decline. When I was a young skin it was sixpence to watch Joe Baker. Beat that pussy!

  39. GSPM

    Feb 23, 2017, 17:34 #98629

    mad max : You're not wrong, one of my favourites in the clock end (among many) was when we played Coventry and Gordon Strachan got it..."Gordon Strachan's Ginger.. " it went on for ages, poss whole game ...Oh happy days, never to return in this corporate, money is everything football world that exists now.

  40. mad max

    Feb 23, 2017, 17:27 #98628

    nothing else to discuss about the arsenal at the moment, that's how depressing its all become under this wenger dictatorship, but all the tourist and johnny come latelys will soon be singing his name again when we beat the mighty Lincoln, the trouble is all the old school gooners we,re either driven away by extortionate ticket prices pr sheer frustration with wenger years ago, all we,re left with are great memories of standing on the clock end outsinging the away fans.

  41. David1

    Feb 23, 2017, 16:03 #98627

    Bard - couldn't agree with you and Martin Samuel more: Arsenal have been very good for AW. He doesn't deserve any greater honour than GG, and didn't make the club great in the way that Herbert Chapman did. Winning the PL 6/7 times and the CL a couple of times, would've increased the grandeur of the club - which is what Herbert Chapman did. AW hasn't achieved anything more than the best of his predecessors. Even in the best of AWs teams, there was always the sense that they were a bit light-weight in the CL. It's not just having the right manager - in a sense Arsenal are stagnating as a club: old vision in a new stadium. Old wine isn't good for new wine skins. This won't change unless there is someone running the club with the ambition to win the CL - and more than once.

  42. jjetplane

    Feb 23, 2017, 16:01 #98626

    Usual old AKB rubbish and if you are happy at a 100 squid a game to be bored ****less, be my guest. I watch a team for 3 quid a game and do not miss watching virtual Arsenal. Leek - Leicester still have a better shot than Aresnal of progressing in the CL where they played a great second half and Arsenal were ****. Do remember Leicester won the league last season. Arsenal's last was in a analogue world. Would not laugh at the Totts too much because even at their current worse they are still number 2 currently in London. **** the alliance with Wenger's suicide cult. One happy football fan . Support your local team Untold!

  43. jeff wright

    Feb 23, 2017, 16:00 #98625

    Personally I don't just believe that Wenger is a disgrace to football in general but also to himself and his family and to mankind ! Seriously the arrogance of the control-freak cretin with his greed his need for power and accolades and total lack of ANY sort of self awareness or humility regarding his own shortcomings is a disgrace to humanity because someone in his position of influence over others,especially young people, should be setting a far better example .Statements from him such as, I don't know what I would do if I was not a football manager,reveal that Wengo at 67 is as very shallow man .His contempt and derisory dismissal of supporters views - many whom have supported AFC for all of their lives,unlike some of those Johnny come lately Emirates Experience crowd types, would not be tolerated by a club with any real class .You don't buy class by the way GR it has to be earned and the Wengo/Syrupy Stan and co regime does not have any class. They use the old Arsenal history when it suits them to try and pretend that they have and dis that history when it doesn't suit their money making agenda or the talking up of Wengo and his alleged achiements . Wenger is a weak man he clings onto his control at AFC like a drowning man does to a life raft afraid to let go of it because it keeps him afloat in stormy waters that he knows he would drown in if he did not have that support to help him survive. He survives and that just about sums up his tenure since 2005. Surely there must be more to life than this but not according to Wengo himself.Says it all really abut him and his devoted AKB.You couldn't make it up.

  44. Bard

    Feb 23, 2017, 15:53 #98624

    Tony E. you might be right but two things are different at present. We have some really tough away games against the top teams and secondly the team have been playing badly for most of the season. When was the last time they played really well? A couple of bad results might just tip the thing over the edge but as you say beating Lincoln is viewed as success in some quarters.

  45. Redshirtwhitesleeves

    Feb 23, 2017, 15:34 #98623

    One thing I'm pretty sure of is that this board will not sack Wenger whilst the money keeps on coming in. This is the only thing kroenke and gazidis care about. If Wenger is to leave it will be a decision of his own making. I won't be surprised one little bit if this 2 year contract extension gets announced although it might just send me over the edge! Get ready for a few more groundhog seasons yet lads! I hope for all our sakes and sanity that he does the right thing and walks, I just have that horrible feeling that he is pig-headed and deluded enough to believe he is still the best man for the job

  46. TonyEvans

    Feb 23, 2017, 15:26 #98622

    Bard - trouble is Wenger won't get a 'load of grief' from match day fans unless results get even more disastrous. We have been here before and we'll be hearing 'there's only one Arsene Wenger' when or if we beat the mighty Lincoln City in the cup!

  47. Bard

    Feb 23, 2017, 15:09 #98621

    AKB. I agree with you mate. Fans can make a difference. Wenger is very thin skinned and doesnt like getting stick from anyone. In many ways he is quite fragile rather like the team. He likes to be adored and venerated. I think if he gets a load of grief he will think twice about staying. Martin Samuel made a good point, he has undoubtedly been good for Arsenal but also Arsenal have been good to him, what other top cub would tolerate never seriously challenging and continually reward their manager.

  48. TonyEvans

    Feb 23, 2017, 14:21 #98620

    One thing I will say though, Gary, is that talking about Wenger's failings on this site over the years, and knowing that there are others out there feeling exactly the same as me has been good for the soul and has made Wenger's joke management a bit more bearable.

  49. Alsace

    Feb 23, 2017, 13:59 #98619

    I'm afraid that I can't agree with the philosophy espoused. Wenger is an evil with a small "e". You don't get rid of evil by sucking it up. You chip away at it, persuading your fellow arsenal supporters, writing letters, changing the mood. Of course some of us have been at it for years, as long or longer than you have. What has changed is that those in the public eye who know that he is a charlatan, have now been prepared to join Piers Morgan by coming out and saying so. My dislike of Wenger, the causes of Wenger and the consequences of Wenger are constant if not increasing. I couldn't give a tinkers cuss about upsetting those "Arsenal fans" who are devoted to the manager. I just wonder what team they will be supporting when their leader has gone. They are empirically (i.e. the evidence of consistent failure is there to be seen) as well as spiritually in the wrong. It's just a matter of time, but it can't come soon enough, and it will be sooner the more noise people make about it. So Gary, me old fruit, put away your pipe and slippers, put your red and white scarf on, and make a noise. Wenger Wenger Wenger OUT OUT OUT>

  50. GSPM

    Feb 23, 2017, 13:59 #98618

    Leeky : If we built the Emirates to compete with Leicester then your point is valid, but as we were promised to compete with Europe's best ,clearly we were sold a pup. Arsenal has no divine right to win, all I want to see is us competing, getting closer every season, then just maybe the prizes will come. But for the last few seasons (at least 10) we have just made up the numbers, that's what has turned most against Wenger & Regime...Don't question fans passion, a fan in Australia who has never been to a game has as much right to expect, as the season ticket holder who goes every other week.

  51. mbg

    Feb 23, 2017, 13:50 #98617

    Sounds like and reads like to me another long drawn out attempt from an AKB to take the heat of his messiah for his failings and the pressure he's under, and it's failed again. we want wenger out.

  52. mbg

    Feb 23, 2017, 13:28 #98616

    Our current situation is no different than it has been for years, exactly why we SHOULD and WILL continue talking about, discussing, telling the truth about this useless past it old fraud of a manager. You couldn't make it up. wenger out now.

  53. RobG

    Feb 23, 2017, 13:18 #98615

    Sadly the writer is correct - in my view - and this is why :- 'Anyone who actually thinks that our board cares remotely enough to change anything should seek professional help.' I stopped going in 2010 and no one noticed because there was - presumably - someone willing to take up the income slack, from the Club's point of view. Money is the only thing that moves or might move Kronke. Nothing else. I would add that if the stadium becomes a cauldron of dissent on a regular basis that will in turn effect income and would have an impact. But whilst the sheep bleat and the tourist scoff their hot dogs, this will carry on for another decade. Maybe more. This event on March 7th, needs to make some impact.

  54. Arseneknewbest

    Feb 23, 2017, 12:35 #98614

    Gary - That has to be the most depressing, nihilistic thing I've read on here, and that includes posts from Jamee son, Leekie and the Arsenal circulars and audits. So we just deny this club's past; what it stood for, and the characters who helped to build it (including us), and let these money grubbing cretins continue to bleed it dry? You either really want that to happen and are strategising or you're the king of apathy. There is more criticism now of wengo and the ship of fools than there has been at any point in his tenure, and if results don't improve his position and credibility can only weaken. That doesn't happen just because of rsults - it also happens because of a sea change in opinion amongst the fans and the public. I can't make wengo drown by spitting at him, but if we all expectorate he might get swept away in a tsunami of saliva...Have more faith - it isn't going to happen immediately but fans do play their part in hastening sh*t managers' departures from clubs.

  55. The Man From UNCLE

    Feb 23, 2017, 12:32 #98613

    Going with the title of the piece: in the style of Pink Floyd "Another Brick In The Wall". We don't need to talk about Wenger / We don't need no fan control / No 4th place trophies in the cabinet / People leave our leader alone.

  56. mad max

    Feb 23, 2017, 12:05 #98612

    i also feel the article is from a wenger devotee,i my personal choice would be either frank deboer who won successive dutch titles while having to sell their best players,something wenger never achieved, also a certain Brendan rogers who,s Liverpool side would have won the league had it not been for steven gerrard slipping over at anfield against the chavs, if only kroenke would sell to usmanov we would then become the super elite club we we,re falsely promised by wenger and our spineless board

  57. Yes its Ron

    Feb 23, 2017, 12:01 #98611

    bradyorbergkamp - there might be some truth in that. As a result AW should have taken it to the point where its too much for him and by definition affecting his performance and said enough's enough. Moreover, if youre right, the Board should have realised the situation with him and either brought in a Director of football or a worthwhile Assistant Coach to support Wenger. Neither has happened because either Wenger wouldn't allow it to happen or they're too blinded by the cash till ringing to make the required decision. Either way, from top to bottom of the Club its lousy management combined probably with misplaced loyalty to Arsene and taking the supporters from granted, assuming that you're correct of course.

  58. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 23, 2017, 11:59 #98610

    Leek, the main problem with following Arsenal now is it is incredibly repetitive and boring. Getting rid of Wegner will end that problem. In fact Leicester are considered to be in crisis now, but give me a title then a relegation battle instead of the Wenger dirge... much more exciting.

  59. NickT

    Feb 23, 2017, 11:59 #98609

    Very well written article and yet the message seems to be 'why bother' - just sit back, relax and accept Wenger in charge for as long as HE wishes!! I personally cannot accept that and I disagree that the fans can't have an influence - the protest at the Norwich game last season was LAME but if things really did turn ugly (longshot I know!) then I think it would achieve the outcome that most now desire. It will have to get worse before it gets better but no one should ever lose sight of the fact that the only reason fans are feeling the need to raise the stakes is because of AWs blind, arrogant refusal to accept the facts that have now been staring him in the face for years!! Leaving is never easy, AW is an addict that simply cant let go alongside a board with no intention of helping him make the right decision...state of flux

  60. TonyEvans

    Feb 23, 2017, 11:49 #98608

    To those that are saying calm acceptance of the situation is not the answer I say, as a non attending supporter, what else is there? What can I possibly do to influence any decision Wenger or Arsenal make? To stay angry and frustrated at something you can not change is madness and, as much as I want Wenger out, I just have to accept that fact. That is the message I think Gary is trying to get across, but all power to any match day fans that do manage a meaningful protest.

  61. Hi Berry

    Feb 23, 2017, 11:43 #98607

    Leek fc: I think all Leicester fans would have taken the league title last year even if they knew they would be relegated the following season. Are you saying that they would have spurned the opportunity to have that one unbelievable season in their long and sparsely decorated history (one league cup victory if my memory serves?) if it meant they could stay in the PL this season? Utter tosh! Are you also suggesting that the price for Arsenal to win the PL is possible relegation the following season? You are obviously in the 'finish second for twenty years' camp. Don't you think the whole point of competitive football is the glory of winning things no matter whether you are playing in the PL, the Championship, the Vanarama leagues,the lower tiers or school teams. Even in their wildest dreams Leicester fans would never have thought they would win the PL....but you think they would trade that for a few seasons in the PL? It's thinking like that which perpetuates the current regime....what's the point of qualifying for the CL every year when there's no prospect of winning it? Ditto the PL. If you are happy with things as they are all good and fine, but there are some of us who see the vast sums being generated by the Arsenal plc and somehow feel they are being sold short.

  62. Bob Bayliss

    Feb 23, 2017, 11:22 #98606

    Your last paragraph is like someone in denial about the state of their marriage and being prepared to put up with constant abuse from our partner because love is blind. For many of us who care deeply about the club but have self-respect, there are now two stark choices. One is to walk away and turn our backs completely on Arsenal until or unless Wenger goes. The other is to stay engaged and to fight, and fight again to campaign for his removal even if you are right in saying that we may ultimately fail. The third option, passive acceptance of this relentless stagnation continuing, is not a choice for an increasing number of us. It only implies that we are content with being taken for mugs. We fight or turn our backs.

  63. Bard

    Feb 23, 2017, 11:17 #98605

    Gary I completely disagree with your central premise which that we must keep calm and unite. On the contrary there needs to be as much disruption as possible. There has been far too much 'calm'. I dont disagree that Wenger will stay but we need to make that as difficult as possible. Quoting Shearer is hardly a convincing argument. Why its different this season is that the club have spent near on £100m on improving the squad and we look even worse than last year. Sorry mate staying calm is the last thing we need.

  64. bradyorbergkamp

    Feb 23, 2017, 11:16 #98604

    Well alan shearer,unlike newcastle we do not call for the manager's head after the first game of the season as i saw newcastle fans do with my own eyes.we give them a chance to improve and work with the team.it is about 5 seasons since the stadium debt has become very manageable and the club became a buying club again.i think that is fair enough.we accepted 4th as we coped with building a new ground in the worst finicial crisis since the second world war.however this is Arsenal.we expect to win things or to have given it a real go.if not then the manager has to take the blame.if we are incorrect then the board should step in and man up and take the blame.i personally think the rebuild has taken more out of the manager than people think and that is the reason for his problems.

  65. TonyEvans

    Feb 23, 2017, 11:02 #98603

    Hi Gary - I enjoyed reading your article and have to agree that, despite trying to convince myself otherwise, I do think Wenger will still be in charge next season. Only a completely disastrous run of results might convince him to leave - losing to Lincoln and finishing 5th or 6th in the league maybe, but that brings me full circle into wanting the club I have supported since 1970 to lose (with no guarantee he will go even then) which goes completely against the grain. The problem does go deeper than Wenger anyway I know - what other football club would let their manager dictate when he wanted to leave! You are right in that calm acceptance of the situation is the answer, and in the main I do manage that now, after years of anger and frustration. Don't ever build your hopes up that the end of Wenger is in sight because in reality it probably isn't!

  66. The Man From UNCLE

    Feb 23, 2017, 10:53 #98602

    Here's how it'll pan out. Huddersfield will beat Citeh in the replay as Citeh were done in after playing Monaco. Shot-shy Boro will then be beaten 1-0 by the Tykes, setting up a SF with Chelsea. Harry Kane will forget he plays for Spurs, thinking instead he's still on loan to Millwall and scores an own goal giving the Lions a 1-0 win. We will beat Lincoln 10-0 after two of their players get sent off for fighting each other and then beat Millwall 2-1 in the semi, both goals coming in injury time after going 0-1 down in the first minute - thus setting up a rerun of the classic 1930 Final when Herb's AFC faced off against his old club, with a repeat of the same scoreline. Right, where did I put me medication.

  67. Leek fc

    Feb 23, 2017, 10:44 #98600

    Arsenal in crisis they keep telling me. OK, so bring on the Leicester champions on a budget debate. This is the same Leicester 1 point from relegation, 1 point all year, losing in the champs league, out of all cups. Would you have taken a league title for relegation next season?... Yet they are not in crisis but The Arsenal are. Puts the top 4 finishes into perspective every season for the past 20 years. In the financial league we are consistently punching to our weight for the last 20 years. Which other club can say that? Getting rid of Wenger will be the start of our problems.... not the end.

  68. Exeter Gunner

    Feb 23, 2017, 10:34 #98599

    This article may be from an AKB employing what he thinks is a clever strategy to quieten down the resistance to Wenger. Or it may be genuine.