Arsenal Circular 171 – Pro AW v Anti AW

Correspondence without disrespect



Arsenal Circular 171 – Pro AW v Anti AW


Dear Fellow Gunners

Over the years I have corresponded with – but never met – an Arsenal Fan, Victor Thompson.
We have always got on well even though we have different views about AW
Here follows a piece by Victor and a response by me
This exchange shows that you can have quite different views about AW and yet never descend into insult, rudeness, vulgarity or personal contempt.
I disagree with Victor and Victor disagrees with me
But we have a very healthy respect for each other which means that never for a moment have we been anything other than warm, pleasant and respectful to each other

Good Luck To All Of Us Today

From: Victor Thompson
Sent: 11 April 2017 15:14
To: Graham Perry
Subject: Arsenal

Hi Graham,

I have recently been corresponding with Bam whom you may have noted on twitter. I also correspond with Alex Beguzin and some other Wenger supporters. If you read Alex`s articles on Gunnerstown, you will have noted that he has moved from being an avid Arsenal fan to moving slowly to a troubled but loyal supporter. Now he is still a committed Arsenal supporter but one who wants Arsene out.

I watched the Crystal Palace match in despair and I saw all the faults which have become a hallmark of our performances. The players knew that they were better than their opponents and they started by passing the ball around between their defenders as if to show that they could pass better than Palace and that it would engender them with confidence. As we know now, Allardyce had prepared them for just that and he said in his post match interview that Bellerin and Monreal would play as wingers and when they attacked, Mustafi and Gabriel would be left exposed. That is exactly what happened and in the first 7 minutes. Townsend scored a goal when a panicky defence failed to clear the ball out of the goal mouth. Hennessy in goal aimed long balls to Benteke and they had a further two reasonable attempts at goal whereas we did not get a decent shot in for the entire half. It looked as if our players had succumbed to panic and accepted that they were second best, Walcott later said that they knew from the outset, that "Palace wanted it more than we did".

The result was that Palace grew in confidence and our players lost what little they had. In fairness to the fans although the Palace fans out sung and out chanted them, they did make themselves heard and got behind the team. The goal shattered must of that support and the vocals were quieter at first but when the abject humiliation continued it became a mumbling of discontent, increasing to a roar of anger and frustration. I agree with you that it does not help the players to jeer and shout at them, but in reality, fans pay good money to watch their team put in a performance worthy of the shirt and had they been doing that recently, we would not have been in the position we are in now.

The malaise which is debilitating this club has been boiling for at least 5 years as the players we were used to gradually left and were replaced by poor imitations. Wenger was able to continue with reasonable performances which kept us as a top 4 club even during austerity years when we were building our stadium. As long as the team responded to the challenge the fans did not complain. However the tipping point was when Gazidis announced that the days of Arsenal being a selling club were over and Wenger said that we could compete with the elite clubs. The fans took them at their word but we did not improve. We benefitted in the last 2 years from the implosion of Chelsea, City, and Utd all at the same time and due to an unexplainable collapse by Spurs in the last two matches last season we managed to finish 2nd, which was one better than the previous year. Despite those achievements, there were many disappointments and inexplicable defeats to the likes of Swansea and Watford, and of course, we still could not beat Chelsea, Utd and City.

This season, we began with our 2 world class players, Ozil and Sanchez, together with the addition of Xhaka who was one of the stars of the Euros. Elneny had made a satisfactory debut last year, so there was every reason to be optimistic. With the further addition of Mustafi, as a last minute acquisition, Wenger told us that this was the best squad he had had since the Invincibles.

Were we ever to be so disappointed? The beautiful football which had been Wenger`s trademark has long since deserted us and we have developed a style of slow, slow, quick, quick, slow, forwards and backwards, at a speed hardly above walking speed. That was another feature Allardyce had told his team to expect and it is something which every club in the league knows about now. We cannot defend and we cannot penetrate packed defences, the first because our full backs are absent and our midfield is engaged in the tippy tap football described above. The second because when we get to the 20 yard line, we play backwards and sideways and the other team is able to muster its defence.

In other words, the team has no plan, no shape, no tactics, no cohesion and no leader, on or off the pitch. The great teams we had included players who needed no coaching: Adams, Keown, Dixon, Sylva, Henry, Bergkamp etc could have played off the cuff with a style which made it look as if each wonderful move had been rehearsed and choreographed in advance. Vieira and Petit could even foul or bully opponents and make it look classy. Any one of them would have been a good captain but nowadays, KoscIelny is in that role, reluctantly because there was no one else. Walcott is our fall back now. That is why there is no cohesion on the field and nobody to rouse the team when they are under the cosh. There is no natural leader and that is a weakness that Wenger has not addressed for at least 8 years.

If you throw 999 pieces of a jigsaw onto the table, you can never complete it unless you have the one missing piece. Wenger is "The Professeur" whose task it is to find the missing piece. For 8 years it has eluded him and he does not see the weaknesses that other people do, amongst both the fans and the media. He is blinded by arrogance and stubbornness. If you wanted proof of that, then look no further than Sam Allardyce`s post match interview statement. He dismantled Wenger`s style and laid it out on the table in a succinct analysis of how to set up his team to beat Wenger. All his players had to do was follow the plan.

Graham, I consider you to be the perfect example of a decent loyal fan of Wenger`s and a man whose writings I enjoy. I was more interested in writing to you than I would have been to a fellow non-believer because I genuinely cannot understand how Wenger can still command loyalty from someone like you. The reasons I have set out above for my dissolution with Wenger are all empirical and they do not need any forensic investigation. One need only look to Wenger as the source.

Kind regards,
Victor Thompson”

From: Graham Perry
Sent: 19 April 2017 10:36
To: 'Victor Thompson'
Subject: Arsenal

Dear Victor

Thank you for your email of 11 April.
Often when declaring myself for Wenger I have not failed to record a sample of negatives.
I repeat them again

Was he lucky in that he inherited GG’s back four and their mentality
Yes he was but deserves credit for lengthening their careers
Persisting with poor signings – not over looking the good signings – Senderos, Denilson, Bendtner, Squillaci, Silvestre, Almunia
Balanced by Toure, Silvinho, Gallas, Fabregas, Arshavin (for a while) Ox, Theo and later Sanchez, Ozil – Jury still out on Xhaka and Mustafi

Predictable substitutions
Not necessarily wrong – each player knows he has 70 mins


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42
comments

  1. Belfast Boy

    Apr 24, 2017, 16:39 #100803

    Altho Leekie is intellectually challenged he's not a racist!

  2. Ham

    Apr 24, 2017, 11:40 #100777

    Kevin, is the Online Gooner just going to tolerate Leek fc's openly racist rant at post 106583?

  3. markymark

    Apr 24, 2017, 6:37 #100764

    Squeak I would say learn to chill but more a case of putting away your slush puppy / Mountain Dew cocktail and actually string some coherent words together, you sound like Vick Pollard on drugs. I suspect you are far more likely to be wearing a Gimp Mask around Jamees Caravan come the day of the Cup Final. Who's he invited BTW? Old Man Colesey, the Rev Brian, Amos with his calculator, little BBA... sweet memories of such Loons. Where are they now?

  4. CT Gooner

    Apr 24, 2017, 2:54 #100763

    Today was pure highway robbery. How we got out with a win I don't know, how many shots did we actually have, was there more than 2..

  5. Ebor Gooner

    Apr 24, 2017, 0:21 #100762

    Graham, ask yourself this question. Why will next season be any different to the last ten or twelve? This Manager has had many, many chances to show he can change. He hasn't. As he's nearly 70 years old, it would be surprising if he did. Is there a scenario where you would accept that a change of Manager is required, and Mr Wenger should stand down? Obviously, it's not the decade or so we have just endured - so how many more years do you think he should be allowed? You talk about opinions/evidence. Your opinion is that Wenger can/will change. My evidence is that he hasn't (for a decade or more).

  6. David1

    Apr 24, 2017, 0:04 #100761

    Leek - you need to chill. None of this takes away from the fact that Sanchez wants to leave, BM 10-2 AFC, abysmal record against top teams, and still no realistic challenge for the PL since 2004, amongst other things. It was great to see Arsenal play with some fight for the first time since...who knows when. As good as it was, it was only a semi-final - nothing won yet. Get some perspective.

  7. KC38

    Apr 23, 2017, 23:51 #100760

    Very pleased and really surprised. Great to win and get to another final as that is what it's all about. Must win it now second us nowhere. My only negative is why oh why do we not deliver more performances like this, really hope we win at Wembley and it's a Wengers last game and he goes on a high. I can dream can't I.

  8. Leek fc

    Apr 23, 2017, 23:44 #100759

    Cos you are a gutless, full of ****e, two faced embarrassment of a gooner. I'll pop my semi final ticket in the post to mr Ed and he can pass it on to your son for keepsakes. Howzat.

  9. markymark

    Apr 23, 2017, 23:34 #100758

    au contraire Squeak I was very happy for the lads. But why would I meet you at Wembley? You won't be there just like you weren't at the Semi's. Now let's have 500+ words on your day in front of the TV

  10. Leek fc

    Apr 23, 2017, 23:19 #100757

    Back of the queue CYRIL. You speak far too much sense and you have rattled the O.G. Towers for anyone to listen and take it on board. Heads up arses and deaf ears for the next few days. Kevin is writing his negative post as we speak with his cringing, boo hoo pen to paper bore fest. Ssssshhhhhhh. Can you hear the plastics sing.... no.... no.

  11. Paulward

    Apr 23, 2017, 23:05 #100756

    Hats off to all concerned today , shows there is a team in there somewhere. Will not change my mind on Wenger, but they did the club proud today, about time too

  12. Leek fc

    Apr 23, 2017, 23:00 #100755

    MBG. You are old enough, stupid enough and Irish enough to understand that this was the Arsenal playing at Wembley in a semi final. Your fantasy tv station won't show demos because there weren't any. Too fickle for that. We, yes we won the game. Something that may make you squirm with the Guinness that you feed upon. Banners at the final????? The plastics and negatives need people like you like a hole in the head. Keep up the good work MBG. Demo..... what demo.

  13. Leek fc

    Apr 23, 2017, 22:36 #100754

    Get the feeling you are upset cos we won today bell end. Loving every minute of it. Meet me for a beer at Wembley bell end. I'll even wear my yellows for ya. Ha ha ha ha .

  14. mbg

    Apr 23, 2017, 22:27 #100753

    Roy, good shout, I wouldn't say that yet, but where were the wenger out banners today ? where were the wenger out chants ? today was the perfect day for them, to send a message to TOF Stan and board, instead he's allowed to waltz around Wembley with a f*****g smirk and grin on face like a Cheshire cat, pathetic mate, is everything suddenly alright again now ? is it f**k it changes nothing, do we want TOF out or not, maybe they're saving all the banners for the final. wenger out now.

  15. markymark

    Apr 23, 2017, 22:15 #100752

    Squeak at the end of the day you are no better than anyone else in fact 20 times worse. I mean you didn't attend did you? All this Wengo orgasm blah but you didn't attend. A hypocritical little man aren't you. Knocking others but just a weak willed pup who disappears when we lose and appears when we win. We all know about the significance of yellow and the cup you clown. Many of us attended or watched cup finals in the 70's. Many of us will be returning once Wengo leaves by mutual consent or dies in the role. We only have to be lucky once! You have to sweat every result allows him to stay. Now think on this Squeak. Why has Henry piped up again? Two big knocks on Wengo in one week and he has the ear of Josh. Things are playing out Squeak and as Ron has alluded to the Cup maybe entirely unconnected no matter whether Arsenal win it or not. Up the Arsenal, down with Arsene.

  16. Leek fc

    Apr 23, 2017, 22:13 #100751

    Wembley, Wembley...... cos the anti Arsenal bell ends wont be at Wembley. Wembley, Wembley...cos the anti Arsenal bell ends wont be at Wembley.

  17. Roy

    Apr 23, 2017, 22:02 #100750

    Good grief, that probably means another contract doesn't it, regardless of whether we beat Chavski or not ? Worrying times ahead.

  18. Leek fc

    Apr 23, 2017, 21:33 #100749

    Give us another post bell end and you may get more than six comments..... Hope you had your Yellows on today. Forum lightweights will know what I'm saying. "I do not attend anymore " how'd the West Ham game go.?????

  19. Cyril

    Apr 23, 2017, 21:04 #100748

    What's up with you people. We are in an FA Cup final again. I'm fed up with you lot. I did something positive by writing to him. What do you lot do but moan, moan and moan again. Do something constructive. I asked him to play 3 at the back albeit with a tight 3331 formation. Crucially, it's means a 6 man defence if you know your football. He's trying a 3 4 3 which is just off my formation. It may not work all the time, but at least there is something new. If Wenger gets it right, then I'm all over him like a rash. Too negative, all of you. For god's sake, we hold all the FA CUP records and you just want the the trumps 'death' card to be laid all the time!!!

  20. jjetplane

    Apr 23, 2017, 20:34 #100747

    Leekie know what you mean. Wenger has not given a **** for years. Should beat Chelski though? Top four? CL? Bayern again? Theo captain for life. ps would have been nice if it was Hull or Villa in the final ..... After Wengo's tactical genius today he will find Conte a walk in the park non?

  21. markymark

    Apr 23, 2017, 20:31 #100746

    Squeak I'll take your ticket as you never attend. Now put down the slush puppies your getting over excited and it's causing your ADHD to flare up. Good win today BTW.

  22. mbg

    Apr 23, 2017, 20:20 #100745

    Bard, well said, yes of course it's done, and has been for a long long time and if truth be told the Perry's of this world know that too, but as we know they just wont/can't let go, they still think he's the man for the job, Sad, and in their sad mind and existence today's result just like others will be more confirmation of that, but it won't, not one bit thankfully others know better, wenger is still exactly what he was before the match an old past it fraud of a manager not fit for purpose. We want wenger out we want wenger out.

  23. Leek fc

    Apr 23, 2017, 19:47 #100744

    Who gives a f uck jj. Keep your negative virus in the small minority that you are used to. Yet another cup final for the greatest Arsenal manager.

  24. jjetplane

    Apr 23, 2017, 18:56 #100743

    Great post LEEKIE couple of questions for a positive disciple Will Arsene finish in the top 4? Will Arsene beat Chelski? How are you celebrating St Totteringham's Day? Will Arsene win the Europa Cup? Will Theo lead the team out at Wembley? Enjoy your day out. Good to see one of London's perversely smaller clubs getting to Wembley. ps Will Arsene outfox the Foxes? We await your answers now you are on a roll and your uncle in Cambridge has finally signed that life contract. pps Will Arsene finish above Sam next season? ....

  25. Cyril

    Apr 23, 2017, 18:46 #100742

    Yeeeeess! 3 at the back can work. Ox, Gabriel and Holding sensational. Ozil isolated as can't clearly play counter attack. Nevermind, so happy. She wore, she wore a yellow ribbon ......... Yeeeeeeeesssssss!

  26. jeff wright

    Apr 23, 2017, 18:29 #100741

    Wengo must be regretting calling for goal line technology to be brought in and his claims of a conspiracy by match officials against him is looking ever more ludicrous! You couldn't make it up.

  27. Leek fc

    Apr 23, 2017, 18:23 #100740

    Well, well ,well. To all the plastic negatives on this site. WE'RE GOING TO WEMBLEY. WE'RE GOING TO WEMBLEY, YOUR'E NOT. What did she wear. Sign it Arsene and let's all laugh at tottnumb...... just wondering if bell end aka Mark from A, mad monk, bonzo, boy band bitch, markymark will want a ticket ala West Ham game. Being a gooner is easy, it's the fickles that put us to shame. If you don't want your cup final tickets then there will be thousands who do. Great post Graham.

  28. Bard

    Apr 23, 2017, 18:09 #100739

    Graham this debate is done. Regardless of what happens to Wenger re a new contract he is finished. He spent over £100m told us this was the best squad he has ever had and look where we are. He has taken us to the next level alright, the next one down. Your comments about how much he earns are laughable.

  29. jjetplane

    Apr 23, 2017, 17:47 #100738

    Pep sacked and Arsene Knows to get life contract. Ramsay best player in Europe and top four now officially degraded by Totts and Scousers. Arsene back three better than GG back four. Fact. Perry Knows ...... Cannot get into the temple with my half and half mat. Wenger is a tactical genius! Chelski will need more than Hazard against Gabriel who has just been tapped up by RM but says he will never leave Arsene and Arsene will never leave Arsenal. Over on Untold fans are being baptised by Rev Atwood and many have feinted with back three delirium. Some teams park buses but Arsene prefers a SUV. Perry to rush out quick told you so circular to all the unbelievers who have tried to wreck a great man's career. Loving the meds .....

  30. mbg

    Apr 23, 2017, 16:14 #100737

    KC38, what argument ? perrys got a hell of a lot worse than that, and I'm fed up to the f*****g teeth with the daft Perrys of this world trying to defend the indefensible. wenger out now.

  31. KC38

    Apr 23, 2017, 14:35 #100736

    The club gets richer while the team gets poorer. MBG your tasteless name calling does not help the argument!

  32. mbg

    Apr 23, 2017, 14:06 #100735

    Somebody please tell me is it worth wasting five minutes of my life reading this garbage. Has the skinny weasel resigned yet ? We want wenger out we want wenger out.

  33. jjetplane

    Apr 23, 2017, 13:35 #100734

    No better example SKG than the Conti masterclass yesterday when he brought on 'the beasts' and frightened the Totts off the pitch. Best game of the season?

  34. Seven Kings Gooner1

    Apr 23, 2017, 12:24 #100733

    It is very difficult for me to get down to the level of what point this post is trying to prove. Personally I don't think Wenger is a coach, more like a performance manager or dietitian - let me offer you an analogy. If any of you play chess you will know that you will rarely win a game without a carefully prepared opening gambit and you must always always, have some kind of a defence, Sicilian, Kings Indian, to name 2 popular openings. If you play randomly against any good level of chess player you always lose. It is often said that football can be like chess, especially with the great advances in fitness levels. IMHO AW is that random chess player, no strategy, just possession football which leaves dangerous players with the room to strike goals that kill of the game. Every top coach in football knows this and whenever it comes to the crunch we lose, as would any ill prepared chess player. This football, from Wenger, without a gambit or a strategy as been going on now for 10 years and it leaves Arsenal without any tactical coaching ability and for that reason our footballing leader or Padre should be removed from the club so we can at least have a man in charge of the team who is covering all the key points of football's offensive and defensive gambits. More importantly though, any new man must get the heart beating again of a once great football club, at the moment Emirates FC is just another venue where you can make "contactless payments" with the latest generation of smart phones.

  35. jjetplane

    Apr 23, 2017, 12:05 #100732

    Your argument is just so compelling and concludes that the reason Arsene has not won the CL or the league for his humble payment of 240m since last one (and racking) is because of Sam and Harry. One little point re the coaches having respect for the old accountant. They don't but it's best to say what a job he has done, top four, no big trophies since well before the age of the beard (see Giroud). Your biggest problem is that you think YOUR GOD is the only one when most have got bored rigid by The Way of the Ostrich and have moved on to other things. Other things being the match yesterday with the two top London clubs in a brilliant game. Touch of the Ath's v RM with the Conti having the aces. Brilliant stuff and Wenger is nowhere near the Totts never mind Chelski. Must be hilarious the conversations between Atwood and Perry. Any chance of having them published? ps have to guess you have a thing about Thomas Hobbes and his theories of the baying, corrupt filth at the door of some **** or another .... Most amusing Reverend Most amusing indeed.

  36. Bob Bayliss

    Apr 23, 2017, 11:43 #100731

    Graham, Graham, Graham.....I gave up at this drivel "But remember when almost the whole football world was baying for his blood he went to Boro and a team fighting for their lives and won three points – so maybe we are not fancy dans, maybe there is some character, some plan, some shape, some tactics, some cohesion". Are you seriously suggesting the Boro performance and result provided a shred of evidence of any of those qualities? Did you see them at Bournemouth yesterday? Desperate, unconvincing....can only be a product of blind loyalty

  37. jeff wright

    Apr 23, 2017, 11:20 #100730

    If you replace loyal Arsenal supporter with loyal Arsene supporter then this mishmash of delusional nonsense by Mr.Perry makes perfect sense. Wenger is past it he has been past it for donkeys years so what is the purpose in supporting him ? If he will not listen to reason and he never has done and is unlikely to change the habit of a life time in doing so then some supporters of the club ,note club, will then have to adopt other methods to help persuade him to give up his tightfisted grip on AFC .The fact that this unpleasant sinister control freak appears to be the arbitrator of his own destiny regarding his overpaid comfort zone job is amazing really .Perhaps a run of bad results between now and season's end will change this anomaly . That looks like the only hope there is of Wenger not being around again next season at AFC.

  38. Exeter Gunner

    Apr 23, 2017, 10:33 #100729

    When you talk about respect, Graham, I think what you really mean is 'Please don't demolish my arguments and don't overtly call for Wenger to leave'. But of course you don't even have an argument - you counter anti-Wenger points with 'but maybe that's not the case', in the face of all the empirical evidence. I simply think you lack insight - you don't understand what you're watching on the pitch and you don't see that all Wenger is interested in is holding on to his power. He buys loyalty rather than rewards achievement. How you can't see these things when it's so plain and obvious I don't know, but you're not alone. You and many others have been suckered in by Wenger's empty talk of 'spirit' and 'values' and 'loyalty' and appear to believe that supporting him represents a higher moral ground, when it is blatantly obvious there's a long con going on at the club and Wenger is at the heart of the collusion. And you prioritise this mythical moral ground over the possibility of success. Hence you still, in your delusion, support him. Of course, you will read this and simply see 'disrespect'. And that is why you are lost.

  39. markymark

    Apr 23, 2017, 10:29 #100728

    Graham - Victor doesn't exist does he? It's just your rationale emerging from deep within your consciousness

  40. joebaker9

    Apr 23, 2017, 9:56 #100727

    Graham, Let's assume Wenger is given a new two year contract and at the end of that period we find ourselves in the same position as we do now. Let's also assume Wenger wants another contract. Should he be given one?

  41. Cyril

    Apr 23, 2017, 9:37 #100726

    Graham, maybe today is not the day for all of this. I try my hardest for Wenger to remain but the cold fact is he is nearing 70. It needs freshening up. Look at the game yesterday. In every area Spurs have quality. What has happened to us. Look at our team Graham. I wrote to Wenger personally at home with help from Kevin just to get a connection from the fans to the club and I hope he read the letter. On some of your comments about fan attitude, everybody has differing emotional thresholds and communicate by shouting, talking, being silent and writing. In order,firstly it makes sense to show loyalty to all the fans. The management from a fan perspective do not sit at the top of the pecking order. How can we bargain otherwise? It needs to be a union so that we can be heard. Your a reasonable person , so don't forget these words.

  42. Hi Berry

    Apr 23, 2017, 9:28 #100725

    Jeez...is this for real? This reads more like a schizophrenic wrestling with his dual characters rather than a genuine 'correspondence'. In the 'reply' the writer lists virtually all the problems that are, and have been, manifestly obvious for the last five years or so and dismisses them one by one with maybes, mights and possiblies before nailing his colours to the post that Wenger is still the man for the job due to some gut feeling or respect for something he did fifteen years ago. And to say he stayed at Arsenal on a low salary just beggars belief! So, Graham, you thought the performance at Middlesbrough was impressive. Of course to think that you would have to disregard the fact that having taken the lead we allowed the team with the worst 'goals for' column in the entire Football league and without a win in 2017 to equalise and were then extremely lucky not to concede a second before Ozil netted the winner with one of the few genuine chances we created. You honestly think Wenger has it in him to win the Pl again? Even after the debacle of cocking it up last year when the whole of the solar system was aligned in his favour? Jeez, views like this make my blood boil.